some people swear by him, and some cant stand him
so where are you on the spectrum?
do you like what he does?
or do you not like him?
I'm looking for answers with reasons.
I am hoping that greekman and dutchman will answer, as well as all of our TC's
so please starwhat caused the 'discussion'
http://gopetition.co.uk/petitions/stop-s…legit;
what methods of dog training do you use?
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I don't like him.
I'd actually like to see one of the episodes unedited for TV to see what actually goes on behind the scenes and who really counsels him.
His methods are out-dated and some are dangerous. But that's just my opinion.
Legit: I use NILIF and corrections for unwanted behaviour.
ADD: TD all you want, I don't care. His methods wouldn't work for my dogs.
ADD: I agree with More Bored Collie. Positive only reinforcement in my eyes is never 100% effective but unfortunately has become the norm. These softies would probably call the corrections I give to my dogs abuse.
Any dog is going to continue exhibiting unwanted behaviour without repercussions. Simply ignoring it doesn't work (well at least not for me).
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- Don't like him. I like some of his ideas and methods like making sure a dog is properly exercised, making sure that the dog knows his place in the pack, not treating your dog like baby, etc, but those I do like are not things he came up with....they are methods that trainers have been using for years!
He advocates methods like the alpha roll that could get someone killed if done on the wrong dog. It's also a rather harsh method on a soft dog and a dangerous one on a hard dog. I hate that he uses the exact same method on every and all dogs....regardless of their temperament. I don't find him to be cruel, just really stupid. I can't watch his show without screaming at the tv at some point. - some things i agree with him and some i don't. mostly just common sense.
- I honestly can't say I've watched enough of him to have much of an opinion. As far as I know he gets ratings - so the entertainment value of his methods are high. Which likely means the effectiveness is not quite so high. I prefer to watch a real trainer in action opposed to edited television products.
I personally can not stand when people try to use that show as dog experience. (ie on an adoption application "What experience do you have owning dogs?" Answer: "I watch the dog whisperer every night")
With regards to training in general, I believe that the general populous is leaning more towards the "absolutely every little freakin thing is abuse" end of the spectrum. Which is absolute positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement whatsoever. And I have yet to find this method 100% effective.
With my training, I suppose I sit somewhere in between. My dogs respect and obey my commands the first time whether I have a treat or not. If they do not obey, they are physically corrected (oh noez someone call the authorities I correct my dogs instead of using only positive reinforcement!!). Rewards usually come at the end of a long session rather than each and every little step in between - and they are not always food. - His methods are not suitable for your average dog owner. Have you seen how many training questions pop up here followed by "just like Cesar said too" or something along those lines, saying that what they're doing is not working. I personally don't agree with half his methods and actions, but I don't mind so much when carried out by a proper trainer or by some one who has a clue as to what they're doing, I don't agree with average pet owners using most of his methods.
Legit: Positive reinforcement and NILIF
add: Also I'd like to add that his methods DON'T work for every dog, he treats every dog exactly the same, like there is no leeway, where as his opponent Victoria, from what I've seen in her shows, is she works slightly differently with each dog/situation, she also works with the owners (which is what I like) because there is NO point training a dog when its owners cannot even correctly follow through with a command. - As far as his methods I agree with the spetrum of exercise, socialization, and dicipline. Where I disagree is his methods of dicipline. Placing a dog in a submissive position can to one of two things. Cause the dog to submit or cause the dog to retaliate. For an experienced trainer this isn't a big problem but for the common household pet owner it can be very dangerous and is not practical for everyday use. I myself use the command, avoidance, escape method in which you give a command and praise if it is conducted. If the dog doesn't accomplish the task he receives a quick sharp correction on the choke chain accompained by a loud, "no." The dog is given the command again and if he fails to accomplish the task after the second time pressure is applied on the choke chain and the dog is assisted into the position. With this method if the dog tries to bite you can simply apply pressure upward on the choke chain and retrain the dogs head upward giving it less control over the situation than if the dog was on the ground. The NILIF method as some people call it is very good for keeping structure and is a positive method especially starting out. The CAE method is for experienced dogs.
I still prefer him over Victoria Stilwell. She doesn't train dogs she promotes dog training equipment that doesn't work. - I personally like ceaser milan.
I am not a typical dog owner although, I have a lot of experience with different types of dogs and different issues.
I have worked in rescue for years, and do at home based training with clients.
I think every dog needs a different training protocol for whatever you are trying to accomplish.
Some are really food motivated, others are toy motivated. Others like praise, and if you got a really messed up dog then you need to sometimes put some power into it.
There are many many people you despise ceaser because they either one believe on only positive reinforcement or they are persuaded by the anti ceaser population.
And I for one have done alot of research on why the people who hate ceaser hate him.
They say he uses shock collars behind the scenes, which he does not. I have seen the episodes with shock collars, the owners already owned the collar for their dog they just didn't know how to use it, and sometimes you need a shock collar in a off leash situation. I own two of them. Which by the way never even hit the shock function anymore.
I think in the wrong hands his methods can be very dangerous.
But he also makes very good points on things that most dog households are lacking. Which is rules, boundaries and limitations.
I am a vet tech, and I wish more people would put the time into training their dog!
It makes our job so much harder, although i understand some dogs are beyond panicked in that situation, but some even try to bite their own owners!
All that being said he really does try different methods for every case.
Its not all dominance and submission.
But to truly train a dog you need experience. And you need to know what to look for, especially when working with an aggressive dog.
Most people should find a good trainer, not a petstore trainer, to work with a challenging dog, so they can be taught how to properly fix them and themselves.
I can't believe the people who try to be ceaser, or the ones who just buy a tool to train their dog but have no idea what they are doing.
But I am FOR ceaser. - I whisper at my dog all the time.
Where the hell is my reality tv show? I am MUCH cuter then Cesar!O.o - I'm for anyone out there getting dog training into the mainstream. I don't care if it's Cesar Milan, Victoria Stillwell, Brad Pattison or anyone else. People need to realize that the biggest cause of death in dogs is not old age but lack of training and behavior problems. There are many methods used to train dogs as well as many people who use them. Not all methods work for all dogs and their people. While I not a fan of any one trainer, I feel that TV trainers have helped the general public to train their dogs and kept many of them out of our pounds and shelters.
Legit: I'm a balanced trainer. I use a variety of methods depending on the dog and what I'm trying to train it. In another words I use everything from operant conditioning to force training. My training tool box is quite large. - It's not that I don't like him it's just that I think he gives the average joe the sense they can train their dog in a 1/2 hour...The show gives false hope that if you do exactly what he does your dog will do exactly that and then it fails..I say before you get your breed make sure you know what exactly it is that dog was bred for and be prepared.The questions on here after the fact that "my dog does this and what can I do to stop him" is sad when that is what the dog was bred to do..Sign up for classes when he's 8 weeks old and start with the basics then go from there.An active dog with an active mind is usually a well behaved dog.It's the ones that get a puppy to come with it's own trainable manual and when it does'nt do what the book states they end up in a shelter..
- Wow. I can't believe someone actually wasted their time trying to start a petition from banning his show.
This is my theory on him...
I would like to first point out that he always says and it is always stated on his show to "not perform the techniques without first consulting with a professional". He has also always said that not all methods work on the same dogs.
So to say that he will turn a dog aggressive...I'm sorry, I think that's BS. That's like the debate we were having the other day on "too hard corrections". What may work on my Dobermann is probably not the best technique to use on a Yorkie - and yes, that Yorkie would probably become fearful and all messed up if it was trained like my Dobermann.
When people say that he's too "mean" and "abusive"...I say (whether you like him or not) BUNNY HUGGER. I don't find any of his methods cruel. He does use that method with smaller dogs with flipping them on their back and I know some trainers are against that, but I still don't think that should be classified as "cruel".
All in all, I would say I use some of his theories as my backdrop in training. Watching his show does remind me that when my dog is driving me insane, I need to be calm in order to get him to listen to me. You also can't deny his theory on exercise, discipline and then affection. You also can't deny his theory on being a "pack leader". On the flipside, that "touch" method - does NOTHING on my dog lol. He couldn't care less and will ignore you lol.
People think his show is dangerous because it leads people to believe that they fix their dog in 5 minutes - my theory on that:
1) If people are stupid enough to think that it only takes the half hour of the story to fix a dog, that's their problem. Not National Geographic's or Cesar Milan's. These are the same people that believe everything they see on TV is real; and
2) I think that, on the contrary, it gives people hope that they can fix the behaviours in their dog that they find most troubling. It gives them the feeling that they are not alone and their dog is not a lost cause.
Whether or not he's a "good trainer", I'll leave that up to the trainers on here to debate. But do I think his show is dangerous? No - just for stupid people, but they really shouldn't own a dog to begin with lol. Do I think he is cruel? Absolutely not.
Legit: My training methods are not based on giving the dog a treat everytime he does something good (these are the people that think CM is cruel, because he doesn't do that either), I believe in postitive reinforcement when learning new techniques - but mostly verbally. Treats are used when he's learning something brand new at the very beginning and then they stop.
Oh, and I also believe in firm corrections - mostly done with my PRONG COLLAR! TD me lol.
ADD: Love Launi's answer! Said it better than I could! That goes with my theory that people don't like him because he tells people not to cuddle their dogs and treat them like little furry babies. That makes the bunny huggers angry lol. - Just going to paste an answer I used on this question before, as it stands true and I hope you find it interesting. :)I'm going to try to give you a balanced answer, as I can see both sides.
I like The Dog Whisperer for its intents and purposes - as an entertaining TV show. I love having a giggle at these silly women who let their designer mutts run rings around them, causing loads of trouble and you can almost see the exasperation in his face when they're telling him how their dogs are their "babies" and they're allowed "everything they want". It sounds very snobby, but it makes me very grateful that I know how to handle dogs and that will never happen to me!
People dislike it for a few reasons. The main one being, a lot of the things he does require an explicit amount of knowledge and experience (especially when it comes to fear aggression, food aggression or general viciousness), and people see the things he does, they think "I can do that!" And oh look - they got munched by the German Shepherd that is munching everyone that goes near him at Meal TImes!
Another one is that some of his methods are questionable, especially the Alpha Roll. If not done properly, it can be very dangerous for the person doing it and even for the dog! This has since been removed from his encouraged training techniques.
That said, I think that obviously he does know what he's doing - he gets results and helps people to see where they're going wrong. My main thing I like him for though, is that he is showing the world how awesome the bully breeds can be - dogs like Daddy are giving Pits the reputation they deserve, that a powerful dog when correctly brought up can be a great companion.
So, yes. I have a very neutral feeling towards Cesar - I think some of his work is interesting, however I think that the people that see it as a bible for dog training and then end up hurting themselves or their dog is a real risk. It's a television show, meant to be entertaining, and if more people saw it like that, then we wouldn't have these problems. - Okay, here we go. I have been watching his show since the beginning. He has IMPROVED, has opened himself up to other techniques (such as treats) and has incorporated several different 'types' of trainers.
Cesar does not 'train' dogs. He rehabilitates. He trains people. There is a big damn difference. I have never seen him use 'cruel' methods on a 'soft' dog. I have seen him get down and dirty with dog aggressive dogs and HUMAN aggressive dogs. (I will go into that further in a minute)
I am seen him end up with many dogs of people he has tried to help and the people have failed.
I believe in his "discipline, exercise, affection". I believe in his concept of pack leadership. I believe in his concept of treating a dog like a dog. He has no problem with dogs sleeping with you, on the furniture etc. Where the problem lies is when the human fails in being able to assert their authority over the dog. When dogs are on the couch and you want them off they should get off. People moan and groan to him about 'he bites me when I try and get him off the couch'. Well? That is YOUR fault.
When he teaches the 'walk' he uses almost always what the dog is used to. There are times I have seen him suggest a collar rather than a harness on a Great Dane. No kidding.......
I have also seen him work with very fearful dogs. He has analyzed a problem with 2 GSDs. A male and female. The male was being 'attacked' by the female. The owners were considering getting rid of the female when the problem was the male. He had no self-esteem, was highly excited and anxious. The female was calm. The MALE'S unsound temperament caused the female to try and 'control' him. So the dog causing the fights was in fact the unsound male.
I have watched him teach the owner's of two Maltese how to train them to not be fearful of wheelchairs and walkers so they could become part of a therapy group for a nursing home.
I have NOT seen him alpha roll a dog in over a year of shows. And I have NEVER seen him alpha roll a Chihuahua......good grief.
His compound is incredibly dog friendly. He has all the acreage, the personnel the equipment and money to home these dogs providing them with training, exercise etc.
His wife is involved in adoptions. His wife is involved in taking dogs into schools to teach children about how to properly care for an animal and to teach about animal neglect.
His disclaimer at the beginning of his show is great for people with common sense. Those without common sense are the ones who get themselves into serious trouble.
He uses prongs and e collars. I have never seen him leave a client with an e collar to train without engaging a professional trainer for said client to make sure it is used correctly.
The man is NOT perfect. He does have a way with animals. There is no doubting his 'energy'.
The only thing I do not agree with is his determination that he can rehabilitate a human aggressive dog.
I use pack leadership training. Postive reinforcement. Assertiveness with a calm energy and patience. I follow his 'discipline, exercise, affection'.
It works for me. - Luani said it perfectly! I think exactly the way was she does. I use pack leadership training. Positive reinforcement. Assertiveness with a calm energy and patience. I follow his 'discipline, exercise, affection' also. Also the "touch" does work on my dogs but they aren't hard dogs either.
- I do not care for him.
I think his general idea is correct- that dogs are NOT our babies, and that they are DOGS and need discipline and exercise. Yes this is correct.
His execution? TERRIBLE! I think maybe the biggest problem I have is the fact the show is 30 minutes long, and some episodes are "okay lets roll the dog over... OMG its cured!"
Seriously, I am NOT kidding. There was an episode exactly like that.
It was Jon Bee's episode. http://www.secondchancelove.org/images/j… I want to mention this dog was VERY severely aggressive.. and now he's "perfect"? You would think they would make some indication that he used to have severe aggression and that persistent training is what the dog needs. But no, they act as if one alpha roll cures a dog for life.. it's an ongoing process!
Now, I'm serious. The dog was severely aggressive. Cesar came in,m and the whole episode was him trying to get the dog to turn over. At the end, he was obedient and well behaved.
.....REALLY?But yes... his general idea is right. But he is a celebrity... not a trainer.
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