http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFgm9DXXm…
In response to that guy: Well duh genius...that's why you only teach behaviors with food and use corrections to stop them from eating cheeseburgers magically thrown out of windows and squirrels. You obviously have no concept teaching in a low distraction environment, and then proofing in a high distraction environment with corrections...why does that concept elude so many people, is it really that difficult?
Also! What's the dumbest thing you've ever heard somebody who accepts money for their training advice say?
(no wives tales or "My neighbor" stories, but a real "trainer"/"behaviorist")
Do You Need Dog Training Tools When You Train Your Dog?
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Ok Curtis. We rarely agree, but you got me.
That guy is a FRICKING MORON!
Wow.
Very long day, I've heard some pretty dumb things, but none are coming to mind at the moment.
Here's one, with a photo even. If your puppy resists training and/or tries to bite, bite him back. http://dogtrainingbyjess.web.officelive.…
That page is a from a puppy training book. That in no way looks safe.
Advanced Dog Training Exercises
- I've got one... my mom is a dental hygienist. One day, she was cleaning this guy's teeth... the guy had been a "dog trainer" for several years and owned Pit Bulls.
So this dude has a Pit who likes to chase cars. What does he do? Gets a friend of his to run his dog over. The dog's still alive. I don't see why the guy didn't just keep his dog contained, it's kinda simple, yeah? But apparently the dog doesn't go anywhere near cars now. - A local trainer with a radio show, ( Fresno) advises to "almost drown a dog" in any hole he has dug in the yard.
Yep, he said to fill the hole with water, and hold the dog's head in it until he collapses..and he will never dig again.
Yeah, like a dog has that kind of reasoning? - I do not only teach my dog behaviors with food. I don't always carry treats with me. I also do not want my dog to only behave if I have a treat. She gets praise as a reward for verbal commands as well as hand signals. She actually works better with hand signals.
- mine is: when your dog barks, squeal in it's ear.
- Well I cannot think of the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard at the moment. I KNOW I have heard some really stupid things tho. There was a question awhile back about time outs for dogs, which I never got a chance to answer. To me, that is some pretty stupid stuff. If I put my dog in a time out ie crate...it is because I am so frustrated I am going to kill it! Not so the dog learns a lesson but so I can regroup before I do something stupid ;p
This guy is a dork with a capital D.
Now, we have a difference of opinion on training a little bit. Gemini is the first dog I really really worked with using marker training. Now, old habits are hard to kill. But I moved right into compulsion when she understood what I was asking. I never really TRAINED a dog from a young pup...mainly young adults. SO>>>this worked well for me. I had no problem using food or play rewards and currently I use play rewards more than food rewards. But I have no problem and probably exercise using a bit of force moreso. I ask a sit...she looks at me with a wagging tail...she gets a nope SIT with a good jerk on her leash and a smack on her rump. A few days of that and VOILA. Sit is perfected! So I certainly believe that both have their place. Again, i used marker training with her and was happy with it...but I *know* I moved into compulsion much quicker than most ppl, like yourself would. AdmittinglyI am a bit impatient with a tad of a temper hehe. Hence I work better with a dog with a STRONG personality.
OH, through all this jabbering I have one! I am currently working with my GF Dobie. Have been working with this dog for sometime. She was kicked out of our agility class because of "dog aggression" Yup, she wants to eat the JRT lol. Perfect on leash...off leash she would rather go for another small dog. Now this Dobie is weak...and I mean weak. She is a nervous wreck and takes time to warm up. Her "dog aggression" is ALL fear based. She leaves my sweet little cavies alone but put her with a lil dog with a big personality and she goes after them shaking. Put her with a big dog with a big personality and she cowers behind her owner. So the trainer instructed my friend on alpha rolls. She did it....Dobie went after the JRT...my friend alpha rolled her...the dog pissed all over her and everything else and bit her in self defense. Hmmm, she was asked to leave the class and not return. I told her from the get go that I WOULD NOT alpha roll that dog...so to me alpha rolls are pretty dang stupid. Either the dog is too weak to begin with and you will get the result she did OR the dog is too full of itself and WILL fight back. - Stupidest thing EVER;
If your dog tries to bite you, stick your hand down it's throat (or fingers for smaller dogs) and GAG IT. They won't EVER try to bite you again!
Well no **** genius but they'll never let you brush their teeth or behave for the vet ever again. LOL @ that guy.
I don't believe in treat training that much anymore. But for *totally* different reasons. And I don't say "NO TO TREAT TRAINING" I just prefer not doing it, but some dogs only learn when something so obviously positive like a treat. How are some dogs supposed to tell just loving pats to praise pats? Exactly.
I love it "Fear often over-rules food". Uhh, are you saying we should use fear on our dogs? o.O
My Dane I completely trained her with treats (well, there were a lot of "good girls" and pats too..) and she never chased anything unless I told her to and she'd come back on a dime, with or without treats. She also rarely got at any stray food. By the way, isn't that what the "leave it" command is for...?
I also have to comment on the "kick the vending machine" thing. Okay, NO. NO NO NO. All my training friends don't "reward" for growling or begging for more treats. They can 100% treat train and I swear to God if the dog ever pulled something like that they'd get one huge correction and no attention what-so-ever. Some don't even acknowledge the behavior. And I'll tell you, after a day of that, those dogs never "kicked the vending machine" ever again.
IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO TRAIN PEOPLE. Just don't be stupid about it, and actually *think*. - Hahaha...oh that was funny. "If someone throws a cheeseburger out the window and you have a hot dog".
Treats should obviously be used as rewards, not as lures, and not all dogs are treat motivated, so to a degree he has a point, but in general he seems quite clueless about the different methods of dog training. I have a dog I can call off a running hare or a fox, all done with treat and praise rewards, and proofing the dog (without corrections, though) in environments with higher and higher distraction levels. I only correct my dog if she disobeys a command that I am 100% sure she knows and can perform at the current distraction level. Oh...and if someone throws a cheeseburger out a window, my dog knows not to take it.
I've read and seen plenty of dumb things and dangerous things on TV and in here, and have had plenty of personal experience, but the most recent: An animal behaviourist accusing me of using a shock-collar or an invisible fence (which are both illegal where I live) because my dog knows where our property boundaries are and don't cross them. Apparently something like this cannot be taught without punishment based training. Same thing apparently applies when the dog knows the meaning of the word "no".
Needless to say that my dog has never been zapped, hit or in any other way punished during training in her life, so this professional is merely displaying her own ignorance regarding training methods. Not someone I would ever recommend.
EDIT: Chetco. I'm just speechless and I thought I'd heard all the worst ones. - My GSD's were all trained with treat training and they never ran after the Cheeseburger...I start that way than I stop treats and go with something that interest the dog,stick,ball or whatever.I than go onto hand signals and commands only.I never ever had a dog run from me,leave a command for any distraction whatsoever..Thats called excellent training and always in control..I would take my dogs to the park, OFF leash, and walk away with many distractions,in a sit and stay positions..I gave a command and they ran to me on the command FRONT and sat right in front of me looking directly at me till I say differently..Thats training..Not some geek trying to sell a video!!!
- I could barely get through the whole thing because he was so dang boring. But for once I agree with you. Hey it can happen :)) I do think treats is a good starter method for most dogs as long as your voice is the biggest motivator and the treats are weaned off. You are looking for the dogs undivided attention
The dumbest I have heard so far;
The first thing you do when you start training is to pick up the dog and stare it down, as soon as the dogs breaks the stare you have won dominance over the dog---WTF why does that matter after five minutes. What do you do if the dog weighs 50 lbs?
Then the alpha roll has always amazed me that people think that works.
I am sure there is more just need more coffee.
add: I have seen professional trainers say that dogs need time out---what, for a little snooze.
Chetco- you made my jaw drop on that one. Stupidity is contagious - I laughed at that guy... The reason dogs "only listen when you have a treat" is because you have to start to take the treat OUT of the equation. I have trained my wolf/akita/husky almost perfectly(just a few things he doesn't want to get rid of like jumping, which is my fault anyway), with and without treats. And to me, treats can be anything. Food and toys. Some days he prefers food, some days he prefers toys.
And unfortunately, there aren't many trainers around where I live(hence why I'm going to school to become one), so I don't have any "dumbest training method" stories to share, other than that guy... I don't think just a "good dog" and a pat always works... Some dogs are too food-oriented to listen to a pat, and will still go after that cheesburger.
Labs I know get distracted EASILY. This couple has a GORGEOUS lab named Daisy, and I feel soooo guilty because we'll be at the park, and they'll walk by, and she runs into the gate and she and my dog start playing. She plays for a while, but she does go back to them, which is good. Only once my dog followed her out, but he also came back, thankfully. My dog is very people-oriented, so if he does run off, I just have to run in the other direction and he's barreling toward me. It's hilarious watching him run, though.
ANYWAY. That guy seems like he's a pretty firm believer, but, yeah, pretty dumb advice. I'll stick to treats. - the dumbest dog training suggestion I've ever heard was that if your dog bites, reach into it's mouth as it's about to bite and grab it's tongue. The theory being that a dog can't bite if you have hold of his tongue. Also good if a unknown dog tries to bite you. Now, he showed this technique on a big German Shepard. All I could think of was my hand sliding off with all that saliva and the dog taking a big chunk of my arm! And what if you have a little dog? By the time you get down to where their mouths are, they've bitten you and run off. And if your timing isn't just perfect, you can wind up without fingers. Amazing what people come up with!
The second dumbest was in a book that said Pomperanians don't need bathes as they take care of themselves much like a cat! True - actually written! - I read the following in a book by a renowned behaviourist.
If your dog chases cyclists, get one of your friends to help. Ask your friend to cycle past your dog armed with a bucket of water, unleash your dog and when he runs after the bicycle get your friend to throw the water over the dog. (I still cannot figure out how the friend could do this)
By the same author. If your dog drags a bone around the house, tie the bone to a table with a piece of string. The author obviously was unaware that the dog could also drag the table or detach the bone from the string. - From a trainer I spoke to & discarded just as quickly.....the way to train a dog to reliably obey a command was to coax or bribe it with something that is more rewarding to the dog than whatever it was exhibiting a high interest in.
Hmm, fine, but what if I don't want to hold a live wriggling rabbit in my hand every time I want my dog to snap its attention back to me & away from whatever caught its interest, & work under command or stop dead in its tracks & return to its handler.
One method does not suit every dog, & my b*tch is canny enough to know when she's off lead I cannot pop her collar is she ignores me because I am more boring than a rabbit, which is why I wanted a decent trainer to show me how to fit & use an e-collar. - This guy obviously doesn't know the concept of "treat based training, plus corrections". Also his reasoning does compute. That cheeseburger and squirrel can also be more attractive to a dog than verbal praise and petting. That is where proofing comes in no matter what your reward system is. He made no mention of how to proof against these things.
The stupidest thing I have ever heard is the same at Chetco's. The filling the hole with water and sticking your dogs head in it is a very old wives tale and I never understood how on earth the dog could make the connection, plus the added effect of the dog losing his trust in you. - i used to make a motor boat sound and tickle the bottom of my dogs ear, it made him sad and depressed and angry, and he almost bit me a few times, he hated it. so to fix the problem i would do it again, except give him a treat after, eventually he realized it was no big deal and stopped being sad.
im no trainer but i am very good with dogs, and i have to say using small treats or even 'trainer' treats, work best with any animal. (over patting them on the head lolwut)
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