I have a few questions to ask those who do field work/hunting with their dogs:
1) Can I just use chickens instead of other birds for this training? The wet market nearest to where I live only sells live chickens. No other birds. I know most of the time people use ducks, pheasants & pigeons.
2) Once I am done using the dead bird for training, all I have to do is just keep it in the freezer right? And before I use it for training, should I defrost it overnight so that it is not too rock solid?
3) How are the birds used for this training usually killed? The chicken I got was slaughtered the traditional way which was by slitting the throat. It's okay right?
4) How do you normally introduce the pup/dog to birds?
5) Is the "whoa" command important to teach & is it only for "pointing" breeds such as Pointers? Or can other breeds be taught this command too? I am interested in training Riv this command.
6) Are there any tools I should be using to command River like a whistle, etc?
Sorry for asking too many questions. In Malaysia, there are absolutely no bird dog clubs or groups that I can join & ask training tips from so I'm basically just gonna learn everything myself by asking other people online & reading online articles. :) And furthermore, we're doing this just for fun since there won't be any field trials over here for working gundogs.
Here are some pictures I'd like to share with you all of River's 1st retrieving lesson. He actually retrieved the dead bird on command three times!!!
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p139/…
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p139/…
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p139/…
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p139/…
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p139/…
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Hopefully you get some other good answers here. While I DID actually work at a field lab kennel, and I DID train (and watch a lot), it was very new to me and I've never personally owned one because they're not really my 'thing'.1) Can I just use chickens instead of other birds for this training?
I can't see why not. I would stick to a small chicken. BUT, you don't need to use a bird at all (and if I were you, I wouldn't). A huge percentage of training is done with retrieving bumpers (with scent on them if you want) instead of birds. The birds get slimy and gross in the water. http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-training…
2) Once I am done using the dead bird for training, all I have to do is just keep it in the freezer right? Well... you could. But, the only reason people train with real birds is because the dog NEEDS to know how to handle a real bird for when he eventually has to be able to retrieve real birds. If you aren't going to be in trials and don't hunt, it's not necessary at all. If you want to use something more "life like", you can use something like these deadfowl dummes. They have a rope for the bird's neck so the head flops around like a dead bird to start getting the dog used to that. http://www.gundogsupply.com/dokdeadfowtr…
3) How are the birds used for this training usually killed? Because we had many dogs and lots of training to do, the dead birds for the dogs just starting out were simply the live birds that had already been shot for the dogs before him. Or, in my experience, the guys just broke their necks.
Here's a training scenario at the kennel I worked at that I regularly helped with : The handler has the dog sitting next to him, the helper is out hidden in the brush somewhere. The handler tells the helper he is ready (we always used walkie talkies), then the helper gets a live bird out of his bird box (or picks up a bumper or dead bird), calls with his duck call, lets the bird go (or throws the dummy), and shoots the bird out of the air (or just fires a blank round while it is in the air). When the bird lands, the handler will send him after it. In the event a young dog gets hopelessly lost, the helper might have to give him a hand by throwing a rock in the water near the bird to make a splash and attract him to the right spot, or yell out a "hey, hey" to try and redirect the dog.
4) How do you normally introduce the pup/dog to birds? Basically, once a dog retrieves well with a bumper, you would want to go to the dead fowl dummies, then play fetch games with a dead bird, then use a dead bird in the field, then eventually shoot a live bird in the field. Live birds can be tricky because some of them are very much not totally dead yet when the dogs get there and they can be in for a surprise when they go to retrieve it. (which is why you practice with live birds if you are going to actually be hunting - so the dog knows what to do)
5) Is the "whoa" command important to teach & is it only for "pointing" breeds such as Pointers? Or can other breeds be taught this command too? I am interested in training Riv this command.
We always used one solid whistle to mean the dog was to stop, turn around to look at the handler, and sit down. This was so that the handler could provide directions to the dog if he was lost, or in some cases because the dog did not see the bird drop and the handler has to direct him to it. For this, hand signals are used - where you would put your right arm out if you wanted the dog to turn that direction, straight up if you wanted him to go out further, or left for that way. A repetitive short whistle meant "come to me".
6) Are there any tools I should be using to command River like a whistle, etc? Frankly, I don't know how you'd do it without a whistle. I used whistles all the time (even when we went out to play) just because the dogs can't even hear your voice on a windy day.
If you don't have a helper, you could get crazy and buy one of these really cool bird/dummy launchers http://www.gundogsupply.com/dt-dummy-lau… http://www.gundogsupply.com/dtsybila.htm… (both of them require ammo, as one is fired off a blank round and the other would actually release a live bird you'd have to shoot - so I don't think they will work for you) You can still do retrieves as far away as you can throw a dummy without a helper.
Here is a nice video of a junior hunt test, looks just like the way we trained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgxNgkf9m…
Watch the Master hunter tests - they're really pretty amazing.
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- I did hunting with my Springer Spaniel back in Italy... I don't do it with my Britanny these days though. Not much hunting to do in Miami, aha. :(
1) I never used chicken, but I think that would be OK.
2) Just make sure not to leave it lying around for too long. They create a horrible smell a while after. The freezer seems a good idea.
3) If you buy a chicken from the market, she comes like all the chicken in the market. Most of them are shot, sometimes also hunted by other dogs.
4) Here's a helpful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZDFV0x1x…
5) Yes, it's important to teach "whoa", not only to Pointers. I taught "whoa" to my Springer. In case of danger, you might also use "whoa" to warn your dog and get his attention.
6) I personally like using whistles for attention while hunting, rather than my voice. You might also want to get a "dog coat" if its too cold, however, nothing that will be unconfortable or will make the moviment harder for the dog.
Here are a few sites you may want to use:
http://www.gundogmag.com/training/
http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/
http://www.ducks.org/hunting/retriever-t…
I adored those pics! River is such a cute boy. I think it will be a pleasure to work with him! Do you have more retrievers? Are you planning to hunt with them too?
It's always a pleasure to see another hunter! If you have any other questions feel free to email me, though I may not answer them correctly.
Good luck! - Exciting! I've got some tips for you, since I''m just learning myself.
1. Get on a schedule. Mike Lardy sells a set of DVDs, but other good ones are Fowl Dawgs, Smartwork, and the Farmer/Aycock series. These will walk you through everything- you really need to be on a schedule rather than going at it piecemeal (a lesson I learned!)
2. Pups are introduced with wings- you should be able to order these online. Since he's older, using real birds is fine. Just make sure to with live birds that you give him room and time to check them out on his own. If he starts shredding it or mouthing it, take it away.
3. Start with basic obedience. Everything is built on top of basic obedience. The programs will walk you through this. It's really not any different than any other OB work with retrievers, since you want a really solid 'sit' anyway (unlike with pointing breeds).
4. If you want to use him as a flushing dog (or train him), then you need to train him to sit when he finds scent. This is like the point in pointing breeds. You can definitely train him to woah just like you would a pointer if you want. People get all worked up about pointing retrievers, but you can train any dog that caan find birdscent to point- the pointers just do it more naturally and stylishly.
I'm not really sure about keeping a chicken- i wouldn't imagine that freezing it and thawing it would be very nice :-/ Can you just keep it in a bag in the fridge? That should keep it fresh for a while. It's not going to last all that long (week maybe), that's just part of the process.
As far as using chickens, it should be fine as long as they're smallish, since you want to encourage him to carry them. If live, you can tie their wings together when you introduce them to him. When you're planting them for him to find, you can rig them so they don't fly too far. This is hard to explain, but you tie a length a rope to their feet, then run it through about 2 1/2 feet of hose, then tie it to something on the other end to keep the rope from sliding back through (small stick or something). This is useful, because when you want to flush them, you toss them and they can fly, but not too far b/c of the trailing hose. It imitates flushing a bird, then having the shot bird fall so they can retrieve. It helps teach marking.
Also, you will need a whistle, white paintrollers/training bumpers, a slip lead and I prefer to use an ecollar (tritronics or dogtra) It's not a cheap hobby!
Thats all I can think of offhand, but I'm sure there's more ;-) Definitely get on a program like the ones I've linked below, it will really explain everything for you!
Good Luck, Have fun!
http://www.gundogsupply.com/smartwork-dv…
http://www.gundogsupply.com/fowl-dawgs-d…
http://www.gundogsupply.com/retriever-tr…
http://www.totalretriever.com/training.h… - Actually I like to introduce dogs to live birds first (builds the fire to want birds), and you will want to use smaller birds like a pigeon. You will want to pull the flight feathers or they will just fly off.
As a dog progresses we use frozen birds all the time, just get them out of the freezer a couple of hours before training and they will be thawed enough.
Bird hunting dogs in general can be broken down into two categories #1 non slip retrievers, and #2 upland bird dogs. You should first decide which you want to train the dog for.
For your purposes I would then suggest you get a copy of "tri-tronics Retriever Training" By Jim and Phyllis Dobbs. Don't worry the book isn't about using an e-collar, they were just employed by tri-tronics at the time that they wrote it.
You can find it at www.dobbsdogs.com
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