reward good behaviour and ignore the bad ones?
if so, then
what if the dog has just done a good and bad thing at the same time?
how do u rewward that?
for example the dog has just rummaged the trash
-if u ignore, the dog will think that it is ok.
-but if you say like 'out!' then kinda shoo her away, and once she is out, you praise; the dog will think it is a good thing too. because she thinks that if she eats the trash then goes out, she gets a treat.
how do i deal with this?
also with other conflicts such as runnning away then coming when called, or snatching food off the table and stuff, etc
what is the right way, how am i supposed to do it?
please help. i am very unsure about this. 've been puzzled for months now.
thanks alot to answerers!!
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All the moronic answers you will get here about the all positive crap training. You CANNOT live your life around a dog, it is not possible for anyone with a brain and other activities...that means that when a dog does something that is wrong, you correct it. Keeping your dog on a leash all the time is not a way to live..accidents happen, dogs run out, will you ignore the dog instead of training it to come back using methods that have been proven to work, long line and a prong or an Electric collar?
These people just like to talk trash without having any real life experience with dogs, they get their science and so called experience by reading books published by equally moronic people who have never trained a dog in their lives either.
Go to Koehler dog training and learn how to train a dog properly, your dog will thank you some day, I promise. Hope I helped.
ADD: Certain people come in here and talk a really good game, I am sure they believe in what they say as well, even if it is complete and utter non sense.
When you tell a dog to sit...you had better be able to make it sit, not wait til it is done ignoring you, wakes up from a nap, eats, plays and then, maybe, has a few seconds for you to listen..that is ABSURD.
Management and containment....more non sense...emergencies do happen, things do not always work as you want them to...plus, who has the time to wait several months to train a dog in simple OB?
Dogs run out, no one can tell me how they stop them though, just non sense!!
Dogs do things like bite, am I suppose to ignore that?
Real life does not work the way these so called positive trainers think it does. They have become so fanatical about not causing the dog any pain that they have gone over board.
Train for real life encounters, not imaginary ones!!
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- Obviously you have to teach the dog not to go in the trash so you scold the dog with a firm no or use the word off and watch the dog when he or she goes over to the trash you say NO or OFF firmly and then if he or she walks away, you praise saying good boy or good girl and pet them
. Depending on how old the dog is if it is a puppy I would just remove temptation bc the trash is too tempting for a puppy! - You're right that you want to reward the good behaviors and ignore the bad ones. The thing that you are missing here is that you also want to PREVENT bad behaviors by not allowing the dog the opportunity to do the wrong thing in the first place. Keep the trash where the dog can't get to it to knock it over. Keep your dog on a long leash when outside so that she can't run off when you call her. Supervise whenever there is food on the table, or crate the dog at mealtimes. If the dog does happen to get into something she isn't supposed to, call her away or give her a command that she knows, and then reward her for that.
- There really is no such thing as pure positive reinforcement training, where you only praise the good and ignore the bad. There'd be a lot of dead dogs if people tried it.
Generally, positive reinforcement training involves rewarding the good and humanely correcting the bad. Sometimes humanely correcting means ignoring the bad, like if you wanted a sit and you got a down. Other times you have to intervene for the dog's protection or protection of others.
Teaching or giving an alternative command is also part of positive reinforcement. Leave it is good for things like getting the trash or stealing household items, so that you stop the dog BEFORE she gets those things. .
Some dogs do 'chain' behaviors, like grabbing an item and running off with it to be starting a game or to get a treat when they drop the item. If this is happening, you have been using treats for too long in your training, You don't regularly use treats for an established behavior. - Positive reinforcement is for good behavior BUT you can still scold your animal. Do not reward your dog for stopping a bad behavior after you have scolded her, you are right she will think she did soemtihng good. Tell her NO like you said. and also anytime she gets near the garbage, look at her and say NO. If she was thinking about it she will turn and leave.
When they run away when outside and you are calling that is a bit different. Never, really never scold them once they come back. Always reward when she comes to you, she will eventually come expecting a treat and after getting really good at coming back just loves and a pet will be good enough but treats always help with over active dogs that dont like to come back when called. Snatching food needs to be scolded and not rewarded even when they back off. and do not let them finish what they stole off the table if you can take it back and tell them NO. - We are taking our 7 months old BT to dog obedience classes, where we use only positive reinforcement approach and it is working very well to say the least.
Additionally, it gives your dog a chance to socialize and learn how to behave. On top of that, you can and will participate of the training.
The method is excellent because it isn't harmful to your dog or you.
Hitting, kicking for instance, might and probably will harm your dog and creat an animal that fears people.
Nonetheless, during an inapropriate action, you could just say NO and ignore him for a few seconds.
Regarding the positive reinforcement, you have to reward good behavior with treats, praise, and lots of love. Timing is critical when using this approach.
For instance, cook something that your dog really enjoys. Let him smell it. Stand in front of your dog. Bend down and hold a treat over his noise. Move the treat up over his head toward his tail. The dog will follow the treat with his eayes and head, which will cause his rear to lower to a seated position. Praise him and reward him immediately with the treat.
Try it and believe in it and the sucess is guanteed.
Hope I helped. Ricardo - There is a difference between using positive reinforcement and ONLY using positive renforcement. Ignoring a problem won't make it go away.
I firmly believe you must use positive reinforcement for any training to work well, but bad behavior also needs to be addressed and corrected. Understand that there is also a difference between a correction and punishment. I correct my dogs either verablly or with a leash correction. but do not punish my dogs. It's hard to explain and understand, but basically, you have to keep from getting mad. If you can remain calm when correcting your dog, that's a good thing. When your blood preasure starts to rise, you're on the verge of giving punishment, and it won't work well.
What is a leash correction?
A quick jerk and release of a leash when on a slip collar. The quick jerk is important, but just as important is the immiediate release. Do not pull your dog. A correction is not used to pull your dog toward or away from something. It's used to let your dog know they are doing something you disapprove of.
I'm not a big fan of using treats, but many are. Treats are helpful as a reward or lure when teaching your dog sometthing new. Once they know what you want them to do I'd suggest using a treat reward sparingly so that the reward doesn't become a bribe. If you call your dog and they look at you waiting to see the treat first, you have created a new problem.
For your trash example, the firm OUT is your correction. I'd hold off on the praise for now, clean up the mess, and now go back to the dog.
With the dog on leash with a collar, walk by the trash you just cleaned up..
If they sniff or even seem interested, a firm OUT or leash correction is in order. Repeat as neccessary. The first time you're able to walk by the trash without them looking at it, then shower them with the praise and perhaps a treat. Repeat the walk by the next day, and the day after that, and next week.
Stealing food
Me and my dogs have an understanding. They don't eat people food, and I don't eat dog food. It works well for both of us. How?
Don't be afraid to 'set them up' to make a mistake. This way you can be ready for the correction if it's needed. Put a hotdog on the table... close to the edge or overhanging the edge... so they couldn't possibly miss it. Now do the same thing you did with the trash.
I can eat with my plate on the living room floor with the dog laying next to me. If I get up and leave the room, my food is still there when I return. - "Positive reinforcement" is used by idiots,the AR-brainwashed & cowards.
Here's a basic,explains everything, saying........."If you ALLOW a behavior,you APPROVE it."
"Ignoring" is ALLOWING! - If you plan well, that won't happen. Part of good reward-based training is keeping your dog away from real dangers, just as you would with a toddler. You manage the behavior by managing the environment and/or the dog, with doors, crates, baby-gates, leashes and tethers, until the dog learns what you *do* want in that setting.
Then, as we do with kids, you start at a very easy level of a behavior you are going to want from the dog, practice and build until the dog will do what you want in every life circumstance, ratrher than the old unwanted behaviors.
That can (and should) start the day your dog comes home, so that good habits build up very quickly.
The terms reinforcement and punishment, as they are used in behavioral science, refer to *results* -- if a behavior has increased, it has been reinforced. If a behavior has decreased, the behavior has been punished.
It happens whether we want it to or not -- if your dog gets into the trash and gets something good, she has already been rewarded for that behavior, and it may lead to more of that behavior - reinforce it.
And yes, the potential for unwanted behavior chains is an issue -- for any style of training. Constantly waiting around until a dog does something wrong, then giving a cue and rewarding the dog's obeying, can create a behavior chain. That's one of the reaons I cringe every time I see a string of answers here on YA, telling people to give a toy to a puppy *after* it has nipped.
But, even a "bad dog" reaction can reinforce a behavior! To some dogs -- like some kids -- any attention is better than no attention at all. That's how so many games of keep-away get started -- "the person ignores me if I grab my own toy, but grabbing his cell phone leads to a fun chase with lots of loud noise -- wheeeee!"
If a dog has gotten into the trash, you get her away from it and clean it up. There is no real training you can do at that moment.
Instead, you can teach a dog, by carefully planned increments, to ignore food that seems available and pay attention to you instead, as demonstrated here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipT5k1gaX…
No need for pain or noise -- just lack of success in getting what he wants, and a dog will change his ways. The trick is not to let a dog who knows nothing of self-control, because we haven't taught it, be exposed to as big a temptation as accessible trash, or being off-leash in a huge field or a city.
Trainers who are dead-set against reinforcement-based training, afraid of it, or don't understand how it works, tend to want to paint a worst-case scenario. Mocking reward-based trainers for thinking that a waving a treat will save a dog who is running into the street, or that "ignoring" is appropriate when a dog has hold of your baby's arm, is just silly. Anyone who knows how it's done knows better than that.
The "ignore what you don't want" advice is for early training stages, in which a dog might make an equally benign choice that happens not to be what you want. So, for example, if I'm capturing "sit" using a clicker, I wait quietly if the dog stares at me waiting for another treat, or walks away, or lies down. I'm ignoring everything except sit, because I'm showing the dog that a sit is what I want.
The advice to ignore the *dog* for an unwanted (and again, not life-threatening) behavior is an attempt at punishment -- negative punishment, which means a behavior decreases because something has been taken away (in this case, the human's attention, the opportunity to earn reward, petting, etc.). So, if a dog is trying to get attention with pawing or whining, I may look away from the dog, or I may try to apply negative punishment to that behavior, by walking away.
Of course one doesn't ignore a dog who is running into the street, but that is a management error on the part of the human, and requires emergency action. That's not training.
A dog who has been well-taught what to do instead of raiding the trash, resource-guarding, nipping, jumping, or running into the street will not need that emergency action. And that can be done quite well with positive reinforcement, negative punishment (just taking something away), and management.
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