Example..I am not against punishment and a good ol' butt whooping when needed with the kids. I'm actually FOR it...same for my dog. If I need to correct him with a prong/chocke b/c he's behaving like a little demon ... I have no problems with that.
If you have both, kids and dogs, is the way you approach discipline similar?LEGIT: Random question based on something I observed recently:
Your dog is loose. Takes off running and approaches the neighbor's property. They have electrical fencing for their rather LARGE mutt. Both dogs start barking, hackles up...whole nine yards. What would your dog do?
---approach the random dog and cause a fight
---bark and retreat
Service Dog Training - How to Prepare Your Dog
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Well I don't have kids - my significant other says he thinks I would be harder on my kids than I would be on the dog lol. I agree to an extent.
I mean my child's livelihood will be based on how I raise them and if and when I decide discipline needs to come into action. Letting my dog get away with something he is not supposed to do is a whole lot different than letting my kid get away with something - humans can make poor judgement, can harm themselves in multiple ways, can leave the house at a certain age on their own free will - dogs can't really do any of that. Does that make sense?
I do use corrections with my dog - and when I have kids, depending on the individual child, I will be okay with giving them a spank if needed.
We were talking about this the other day actually, me and my friends - to make the comparison, there are kids who can be stubborn and dominant and kids who are non-confrontational and submissive. I wouldn't discipline both kids the same way because the latter probably wouldn't need a good spank. Same with dogs - if I had a little submissive dog, I wouldn't train it the same way I train the dog I have now.
Legit: If the dog comes at Quattro, Quattro's response is always fight and not flight. If it starts with him but doesn't approach him, Quattro usually will just give the dog a bunch of crap vocally and then leave.
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- While I don't have kids, I think I am going to have to concede this theory to you. I do think that the people I know with kids and dogs did the training, or lack of training/parenting the same. Parents who did not parent their children, also had dogs that were not trained. Parents who raised good kids, also have behaved dogs. I am not sure how to scientifically prove your theory, but there does seem to be a pattern. I would not tolerate bad behavior from my dogs, and I certainly don't tolerate it from nieces and nephews either, despite how their parents raised them. My house, my rules. I think you are right.
- No I don't always correct my kid the same way as the dogs....my kid loses privileges & the dogs get corrections, both get rewards for good behavior.
To them all- I am the authority figure.Legit- My dogs would never make it to the fence, as soon as I gave them a command, they would listen & not act unruly, but if left to themselves it would depend on which dog I was referring to. One would ignore the mutt altogether, 2 of them would try to fight, & the other would bark & retreat. - Your first question was perfectly legit. For the second one, my Toy Poodle would come back to me crying, and my Miniature Poodle/Schnauzer mutt would ignore all the dangers and go right through and be the big man on campus..until the big dogs eat him alive.
No, the training shouldn't be similar. Frankly, children do need spankings from time to time. When a child tears things up or whatever and refuses to listen, bring it on. But when a dog tears things up and such, well the dog isn't getting the exercise or training it needs. - I don't think the methods are always the same--but the principles sure are. Some things are just basic, and apply in all walks of life. . .just my opinion.
I don't have children of my own, but my mother is a teacher. It's amazing how I can understand her methods of dealing with the children she deals with AND the best ways children will learn, because it is similar to dog training. Not identical, no, but the basis is the same.
Hope that makes sense :)
Legit: Holly or Lexy MAY go in to stir things up (I really think Lexy would) . . .the two Shelties would bark and retreat. - Well I don't have kids, but if I did I would certainly not be afraid to be tough with them, like I am with my own dog. I hate this new aged "ignore bad behavior/time out" crap, it just does not work. Both kids and dogs need to know what's right from wrong, and if that means harsh punishment, so be it.
Legit: He would start a fight, no question. But that would assume I was an idiot and allowed him to be loose like that. - Problem with kids is that they're so unpredictable, though I have to say my methods would be much the same.
My dog would more than likely try to play with the other dog, and then with a loud yelp realize that those wires there kind of hurt. She tends to get along with most dogs, I don't think she's met a dog yet that she can't get along with. - I think they do go hand in hand. I won't pt up with kids or dogs that are badly behaved, I don't have the patience for it. I use the punishment that works. I have had friends tell me that they are sending their kids to me because "you don't take any crap"
Legit: Mine wouldn't have hackles up, they would run like little girls - dogs cant understand what youre saying kids can kids can talk dogs cant kids know what youre saying and if they dont do what youre doing then you already know they knew what you meant so....and dogs cant unless they know body language and you taught them hand signals or dog school but if you didnt its not ur or the dogs fault so the dog wont understand u soo... thats the difference.btw im a kid lol
- Wow - why are people like you even permitted to have kids and/or pets? Shouldn't you be out back of your house playing a banjo and gnawing on chewing tobacco instead of adding more problems to the world?
I seriously hope that someone calls the Humane Society and/or Children's Services on you. - well i use positive reenforce ment... i will make a noise or say "no" loud and bold if hes doing something wrong.
and when im older, i dont want kids, but if i had some id probably be a lil stricter.
i see nothing wrong with your method, as long as you dont mis use it or hurt them ( im sure u wont though:) )
add: sorry i forgot the legit! mine would bark and retreat, hes a 9 yr old lab mix. :) - I'm strict with my dogs. Same routine. Command. No. Correction.
I'm just as strict with kids, I love Bernie Mac's part of the Kings of Comedy "I'll knock a kid out!"...lol.
Dr. Spock...the one who started the no "spanking" phenomenon? His son committed suicide...go figure. - I don't have kids cause im like below 10. but for a dog i would just yell at it. and once its sad i feed it and it loves meh again heh
- Let's just say my dogs don't get away with s***!
They are trained properly because I can't stand dogs that are not trained, never mind bratty children who whine and cry to get their way. Same principle goes for my dogs, I can't stand it when dogs literally walk all over their owners.
I do not have children, nor do I plan on having children any time soon...but I would like to think that my parenting skills would be similar to that of my dog training methods. I would have a firm and no buts about it attitude.. I honestly think these days that kids are FAR too spoiled. They get whatever new gaming system comes out, whine and cry for the newest cell phone etc. There are some kids who actually work hard to achieve these novelties in life, but all too many I see are just snotty brats.
Not to say I WASN'T ONE at one point in time, but let's just say I've learned from being on of those conniving children. I knew how to work my parents, they were all about no spanking etc. If I wanted something I typically got it, to say I was spoiled...yes. Have I learned from that? Most definetly! I don't think in a million years I would want a child like me! LOL.
It isn't enough that when I was waitressing I would see so many ill mannered children out for supper with their parents, but to actually see VIDEOS of ONESELF acting out in that way...yeah that was the eye opener for me. I NEVER want to have a child that is spoilt, same thing goes for my dogs!
Legit: My Labrador Retrievers would probably try take on the dog. They can sometimes have dog aggression. I would be holding my breathe, hoping nothing happened! They usually are good with other dogs, it's typically small dogs they don't care for. I sum it up to countless Shih-Tzu, Yorkshire Terrier and other toy breed attacks on them. Small dogs just don't like them for some reason...
My Basset Hound on the other hand would probably tuck his tail between his legs, pee himself and then fly away as fast as his little legs could take him! He is VERY submissive, and gets very scared of other dogs, especially ones that are larger than him. =( - I raise my children and train my dogs in much the same manner. I can usually tell what type of parents people are based upon their dog or vice versa. I am very consistent (typically) with both my children and my dogs. For my kids I give them a verbal warning that i do not like their behavior (and why if it deems fit) followed by a correction (time out, spanking, additional job etc depending on the situation) I simply do not talk twice. Same with my dogs...command followed by correction, if the command is blown. My 5 yr old son is going through a demon stage. Gets me frustrated. I made the joke the other night that if he were a dog he would be tethered to me or crated at all times, thus inhibiting his chances of sneaking off and getting into trouble. haha.
Legit~ My AB would stand with chest out, tail high acting very bold. However, she would be pretty insecure (just a pup) but try really hard not to show it. Thus, causing a fight response from the other dog. I think she would probably not step down and get her @ss whooped...not sure tho? My Cavs...would never bark and growl back...they would merely ignore the other dog or bark/run away :p - Very interesting question Bells !!
Just got called into work for a few hours but will definitely answer when I get back.Back.. :)
I didn't have to ponder this question very long.
I have never raised a hand to my children or to any of my pets. Not to say that I hadn't thought about it at times however, I think that you get a great response by showing respect as the leader or being the head of the household than by fear of getting into trouble.
I found that simply telling my children that I was disappointed in them did far more than screaming would have and for my dogs I simply used the ignore technique and saying no, which in both cases has always worked well for me.
Of course in both children and dogs, at some point they will try and test the waters by doing something they shouldn't but I always stand my ground. Respect is a high priority for me and I will not waiver. I treat people and animals as I would like to be treated.Legit:
I personally don't like electric invisible fencing due to the fact of other people's dog can come on to the property, but....
My dogs I think would try and go after the dog/s. Although that would have to be when no walked on a lead. There is never a time that would even be considered. I like to have mine under my control at all times. - I believe that our philosophies are similar, even if methods are far different.
I don't raise my voice, nor my hand to a child, a horse or a dog.
I have never found a reason to.
I am a quiet and non-violent person, and a communicator.
I can always find a better way to communicate than smacking or screaming.
For me, it is a challenge to find the most effective communication.
I have raised 21 foster children, plus 2 of my own. For many years, we always had seven children in living in our home. Children listen to me, and have never been disrespectful. I used to be our church's children's minister, and worked for another children's outreach, as well as being the director of YKids, after-school day care, in the early 1980's.
NEVER has a child shown disrespect or spoken rudely to me..Not even my own kids.
I am pretty much the same with dogs. I have worked with well over 300 dogs, of all breeds and ages.
I speak very softly, and dogs pay attention and strive to please.
I am the same with horses, and get amazing results.
It's all about finding the right motivators and learning to communicate.
Added:My Afghans have little interest in other dogs, so wouldn't approach or react to them. I have never seen their hackles up. hmm..( do they even have hackles?) My little dogs wouldn't leave my yard. - I'm not a parent but I worked at a daycare as mainly the 1.5 to 2.5 year old teacher. I used time outs and positive reinforcements. It was very successful and the kids and I shared a loving relationship. I thought of them as my own family and felt honored as their "temporary mother replacement" person and did not hesitate to gasp in dramatically and put in time out if one did something they shouldn't. They understood. Only time out for as many minutes as their age though. The positive reinforcement was for teaching potty training and being good at circle time or whatever. It was usually a stamp on their hand and a star by their names if it was for something really good.
I guess I am the same with my dogs. I reward their good behavior, different rewards for difficulty levels. And if one does something I don't want, like they are allowed off leash but if they decide to not come that very second I say "come" then they get the leash on. I've had to use a prong collar for 2 situations. But I think there are many ways to achieve what you want and different ways will work better in different situations and for each individual dog. Children were easier, they all worked the same way for everything hahaha.
LG: my dogs wouldn't run up to any dog or person. I love the freedom of letting them off leash so I spent many months teaching them how i want them to act off leash and constantly reinforce it.
add: I love DeeDawgs answer! PREVENT, TEACH, CORRECT- AMEN! - No kids. Their cute, but they would suck the life out of me. I mean no disrespect to parents and those that love kids, simply that I believe the world is too overpopulated and I appreciate my freedom.
I believe, along with several others, that a nice rule of thumb is to have 2 kids, one to replace Mom/Dad and one to replace Mama/Papa. That being said, I think Jon and Kate have already had my kids.
I was born to good parents, who just happened to lead double lives as a heroin addict and diagnosed depression (often suicidal). I was punished regardless of whether or not I did anything wrong. My parents love me, don't get me wrong, but knew that if my dad was high or my mom was having one of those days I could be the nicest kid in the world and my dad would still forget to pick me up or bring me out all night and leave me in the car while he hanged with friends, and my mom would yell at me and threaten to kill herself (on the worst of occasions, she would threaten to kill us both).
Needless to say, I don't know much about parenting. I know that my dad punished me by giving me timeouts. It was probably the only thing I ever learned from. It was annoying, long, and humiliating. I never swore at my father again unless he really deserved it. I never learned anything from spankings, I would run and hide, scream, throw things. I would bite if they caught me. So they only tried twice or so. To this day, I dislike spankings. I get that some kids deserve them, but I've met plenty of parents that were jackwholes, can I spank them? (Looks hopeful)
I don't use leash corrections. I don't need them. I can't think of the last time they behaved so badly that a pop on the collar was warranted. They're well behaved in general, and a verbal correction is enough to show them when they are doing something wrong.
I learned best from timeouts AKA crate training? Getting off leash has to be earned?
I responded to spankings with more violence, I don't think that's why I don't do leash corrections. I used to use leash corrections but they aren't necessary any more.
LEGIT: Neither. Cameron is too pigheaded to turn away, but to smart to advance. Duncan is to cowardly to advance, but to curious to turn away. They would both stand their ground and stare and/or bark. But Cameron and Duncan wouldn't have their hackles raised to begin with. They don't pick fights, if another dog attacks them they'll defend themselves, but other dogs have growled, lunged, snapped at them and all they do is stare back.
-Alika613 - There are similarities, but the goal is different.
Children will eventually grow up and live their own lives. They need to learn how to do things for themselves, how to make decisions, and how to be independent. Dogs will always be dependent.
Frankly, I raised my kids much the same way I trained my horses. If I had it to do over again, I would do some things differently.....kids are different.
However, my tolerance for badly behaved children and animals would not change.....I expect both to have good manners.
LG - it depends on the dog. I have dogs that would fight and dogs that would run. - I guess in a way you could say I did..except I did'nt give the kids a treat..I was never a strong disiplinarian as my mother was and I said I would never be that way with my kids..My kids are now married and can maybe think of one time I smacked them on the behins,and boy did I have a guilt trip over that one..With my kids and dogs it was an everyday thing with me as far as training went..So I guess in a way you could say I did..
Legit..I did approach my neighbors 2 Retreivers when my Pekingese thought he was tougher and bigger and crossed over 3 yrs ago when I moved here.Thank Goodness nothing happened as their bark was bigger than their bite..But the funny thing was to see the faces on those dogs when my little one ran over to them.They did'nt have a clue what it was..and kinda backed up.. - "well i use positive reenforce ment... i will make a noise or say "no" loud and bold if hes doing something wrong."
LMAO !! making a noise or saying "NO" is positive punishment, not positive reinforcement.
Sure glad that kids know all there is to know about Operant Conditioning these days
:-)
The problem is that you can sit a child down and explane to them why something is wrong -- the method doesn't work all that well with a dog.
However; Dr Spock is a theory, not a law.
edit:
"Is there a Dr. Spock for dogs? Please tell me its not Ceasar"
ya, Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and B. F. Skinner (ie; Operant Conditioning)
edit:
"Murphy was chasing Bambi yesterday (2 small deer). It was just interesting to see him in that situation. Both dogs barked and looked threatening. Mine ran back to me after a minute or so...and the other dog didnt charge or try to attack either."
geez, a Beagle that hasn't been "trash broken" would have chased that bambi all the way to the next county. - Sortof. I think a lot of the things dogs need to be happy and healthy, kids need, too. Structure, rules, boundaries, consistency and reinforcement are all essential for dogs and for kids. I also have a generally "unless I see blood, everyone's OK" approach. It's insane too, what trends you see and how they're the same for kids and dogs. I was at the pharmacy the other day where two kids were running around, grabbing stuff off the shelves, and being brats. Their grandfather, who was behind me in line, said "I'm pretty sure those kids don't even know the meaning of the word 'No.'" Likewise, walking my dog the other day, we were rushed by a golden who was barking aggressively and running at my dog. Remi will NOT tolerate that from other dogs, particularly when he's on a leash. The owner came over and said "Oh, ___ You found a friend! Aw look, their friends!"
WTF? Growling, tails and hackles up does not mean friends. These two events literally happened within hours of each other- similarities?
Legit: I'm not sure. Remi would probably stand his ground until the other dog moved. If the other dog took so much as a step forward, it would probably escalate. He might bark, but I don't think he's retreat, unfortunately. We're working on his tolerance! - I never had kids, but allot of people treat their dogs like children.
Many of them try to train them like kids. I have seen numerous questions about putting dogs in time out.....come on do people you really think that does any good.
Dogs are dogs and need to be treated like it. My dogs are better trained then allot of these spoiled rotten kids that train the parent instead of the other way around.
My dogs will not entice a fight but they sure won't back down. - I think that training/disciplining is different. I don't have kids, but I do take care of my brother. When he gets into trouble and starts not listening, he goes into time out. Sometimes he'll be destructive and start throwing stuff while in time out, and that's when I spank him.
It's the same with my two dogs(a 4year old wolf mix and a 6-7month old chihuahua). I would only spank or use physical force if that was the only thing I that would help(like if my wolf mix happens to get into a fight). I actually don't like prong/chock collars. I don't think it's humane at all, but, eh, to each their own.
Legit: My chihuahua would bark and retreat, then go back, yap, try to be threatening, but then end up just running back home with his tail between his legs. My wolf mix... Well, before, when he was untrained, he would approach the dog and fight. Now that he's trained, I think he might stand and stare down the other dog, but if I called him back, he would come back. If he was outside by himself and I didn't notice he had gotten out, he would approach and fight. Unfortunately, when he's out on his own and no one is with him, his wolf instincts take over, and a dog barking at him and displaying dominant behaviors would be hard for my dog to ignore. If the dog submitted to my dog, then my dog would be happy with that and just walk away. - I am for corporal punishment of human children.
I am not for corporal punishment of dogs. I may use some physicality on them - but its mostly to pop them out of their bad mode and get their full and focused attention for my correction
LEGIT: my dogs would retreat. Jake is too mellow to fight and Roscoe is too chickensh*t - even though Roscoe can look pretty ferocious, for a 25 lb dog.
Here is Roscoe kicking his brother's azz.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52566436@N0… - As a person who has instructed many dog training classes for youth an d adults, I can tell you that both go hand in hand. Parents with well behaved outgoing children have well behaved outgoing dogs no matter what breed. Both the children and the dogs learn the rules and expectations through consistency. The parents and owners have taught the children and dogs understandable discipline and corrections for poor behavior. They properly praise and reward good behavior. they do not give many grey areas as to proper behavior. They are fair and and consistent in the use of their methods.
Any more, I can tell the success of an owner in training class by the behavior of their children if any.
Legit: One of my dogs would want to play. She would show this behavior by play bowing and barking. The other two would just ignore the other dog. All would come back to my whistle. I too contend with many "Bambis" in and around my yard. The deer are thick this year. Sadly so are the mountain lions. - child training and dog training? for me, they're ABSOLUTELY similar.
PREVENT inappropriate behavior with good diet and lots of exercise. this is as important for humans as it is for dogs. my kids and dogs are exercised together (we all run together in the woods, and i run with the dogs while my daughter rides her bike with us)
TEACH them what you want them to do, and reward them in some way when they are doing what you want. this can be as simple as food or play for a dog, and compliments, hugs, stickers, allowance, etc. for a child.
CORRECT behaviors that you know they KNOW are inappropriate. if it is something they have not learned yet, a simple NO, and telling them what they ought to do should suffice (with a dog, i might just give it a conflicting command, with a child, i'd explain to them WHY they can't do it) then the performance of the desired behavior can be rewarded. intentional disobedience calls for a stronger correction. (dogs- collar correction, etc., children- age and infraction appropriate punishment, like spanking (rarely) time out, grounded, etc.LEGIT:::::::::::::::::::::
good recall prevents that situation from ever happening, and training- they won't leave the yard unless i tell them to. BUT, hypothetically, they would approach the dog, and probably kill it. - Yes, I do think I approach discipline in the same way for both kids and dogs.
I don't have kids. At this point in time, I'm not sure I want any in the future.
When I was growing up, my mom NEVER resorted to physical punishment aka hitting, punching, slapping, spanking, etc. She believed that trust is far more important than having your kid fear you. All kids are individuals, (What works for one, may not work for another.) but I believe that you should never raise a hand to your children. I was raised successfully WITHOUT physical punishment. To this day, I have a great relationship with my mom! I don't fear or hate her for memorable physical punishments because there were none!
Don't get me wrong, my mom did NOT use the ignore method. There were groundings, loss of privileges, time outs, verbal warnings and writing lines. She was always fair and picked the appropriate punishment out of the ones above.
I do NOT approve of today's kids! I DO think parenting has gone down the drain! Like I said above, I don't believe that anyone should still be using the spanking crap, but today's parents just stand back and do NOTHING!
It's pitiful! You can't even say “Johnny and Michael stop doing that” no, you have to “invite” them or “ask” them to stop! If you TELL them to stop their “self esteem” might be hurt! Now THAT is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! And people wonder why suddenly there's an epidemic of bratty kids! That's because we cannot raise our voices, TELL them what they can and cannot do and say words like “Stop” and “No!”
Now with my dog, I don't use physical punishment. Obviously, I can't issue “time outs” and things like that, but I can get my point across verbally and with a collar correction when I need too. Changing the tone of my voice is one of the easiest ways to get my point across. I don't classify corrections as physical punishment. Prong and choke collars aren't painful or harmful when used properly unlike a good slap which is going to hurt.
Legit: First, my dog would never be running loose. But if it did happen, she'd probably bark ferociously and run for her life. If the other dog approached her than she would fight because she'd feel like she has no other choice. - When I was in Jr High, my parents had me take our family mixed breed to obedience classes. We loved it! Went to a couple of fun matches and I was hooked. Parents bought me my first Sheltie when I was in High School for my competition obedience dog. Then married, got into conformation showing and breeding.
We were not going to have kids, as the majority I saw in public were obnoxious, bratty, whiny, screaming, wild heathens. Their screaming was like fingernails scraping a blackboard to me and I would actually start shaking inside.
Then, after being married for 10 years...oops! (So I ended up running around the conformation ring with a big fat belly!) My daughter was dragged to dog shows from the time she was a baby. Two years later, oops again, my son. (One would think I would have figured this out)
My kids are grown and gone. And I survived! They drove me nuts, but all in all were pretty good kids. Considering they were still kids. Never got into any "real" trouble. Have good morals. We always got compliments on them.
Generally, we used the same concepts for our kids: set the rules, praise for good, correct for bad, earn freedoms or lose freedoms.
For the kids, I explained that "we" did not punish them. That by their decision to not follow rules, they, themselves, chose the "consequence". Plain and simple.
After a sister/brother fight outside when they were like 6 and 8, my son came running into the house and I found him on the time out chair!
My reflections on dogs vs kids. Dogs are so much easier!!!! You can put them in a crate and leave them at home when you go to the store. If they bark too much, you can have them de-barked. If you don't like them, you can give them away. If they are really bad, you can put them down. If you do this with kids you go to jail! :)....yeah, yeah. I know I am going to get thumbs down. Or a violation for the above. Because I am not PC, and people don't have a sense of humor anymore.
Being in the "dog world" my entire life (most people I know are breeders, trainers, and compete with their dogs in all areas) I have to say the majority of "dog people's" kids are much better trained than the general public's.Legit question: If I had a neighbor with a large dog inside an electric fence, and I had my dog off leash, and she was running ahead and got close to the fence, and the neighbor's dog started barking with hackles up......my dog would not bark, she would not approach the fence. She would stop, startled, stand and look to me. And I would call her to me and praise her. This would be the scenario on our first walk. Any further walks, she would be sure not to get too close to that fence!
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