Basic Dog Training Obedience - Puppy Behavior Tips
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Cesar is a BOOB and especially so when it comes to shelties. You start using his crap on a sheltie, you are gonna wind up with a fearful schitzo. For one, if you are getting in trouble with the law over the barking, get them de-barked. It is a HARMLESS way to remove the loudness and shrillness of a bark, and beats having to shuffle a dog form home to home to death over a simple case of a happy barker. Your dogs will still be able to bark. The surgery just softens it. There isn't any pain for the dog because it is under anesthesia during the procedure.
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- I think he is excellent, we were recently having a debate on chilleddogs regarding this.
http://www.chilleddogs.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1203&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ceasar&start=15 - He doesn't explain enough. He just kinda magically fixes the dog behavior.
I prefer 'It's me or the dog'. She actually trains the dogs in a realistic manner. - Cesar is an entertainer. His TV show is entertainment.
I'd no more follow his examples than I'd let the Flavor of Love girls tell me how to catch a man. - http://pc-safe.info/html/Home_Family/Dog…
- It seems to work
- I think he is a crock. He doesn't do positive reinforcement he just makes the dogs afraid to step out of line like this is from http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm "JonBee, muzzled, is lifted off the ground by a choke chain, a procedure known as "stringing up". Prior to this, the dog had not only shown no signs of aggression but had been attempting to avoid interaction with the star completely." I would like to see someone try to lift my dog with a choke chain it would be me they would have to worry about afterwards.
And the alpha roll hello does he not realize how dangerous that is! I have a really skittish dog and if I had listened to a "cesar fan" once I probably wouldn't have a face right now because of the "alpha roll".
It is a television show I would take his advice and throw it out the window! - The "exercise, discipline, affection" concept is great. But his techniques, like the alpha roll, flooding (that Great Dane that was pulled across the slippery floor over & over), and many of his corrections are really old school and heavy-handed.
The danger in what he's doing, is in the public's belief that any dog's unwanted behavior is solved by him (or anyone) in a one-hour television show. They don't see the hours of filming that were edited out, or any lengthy follow-up in the pet owner's home.
And how many times in YA have you seen questions from people, who assume they must "assert dominance" over their 8 week old ( or 5 month old, or newly adopted 10 year old) dog, by repeatedly alpha-rolling him ?
His appeal to uninformed pet owners is cleverly marketed. What an ego boost to a dog owner-- "I am going to be a Pack Leader! I have to assert my dominance!" True "pack leader" status is not gained by physical dominance over the rest of the pack, but is gained by lesser members' belief in the leadership ability of the top dog. - My trainer hasn't written any books... but has written several articles in industry magazines over the past 23 years. Which is fine by me... I don't need a book, I can just call him on the telephone, or stop by for a visit, to get advice that is *tailored* to *my* dog.
That being said, I don't like Cesar... for several reasons. He is a product of the media that dupes people into thinking that *fixing* a troubled dog can be done in a day. It doesn't work like that.
I don't know where you get your information about Pit Bulls... the media, I assume? You have bought into the stereotypes that are perpetuated by ignorance.... please stop and think about the (lack of) logic behind what you are saying. - "Pack leader" mentality is outdated in dog training because it has now been proven that dogs (even in a feral pack) act very differently than wolves in a pack. Dogs can read human emotion through eye contact. Wolves cannot, or don't care to. Your dog may genetically still be a wolf, but emotionally and mentally, he's a dog and will npt respond to 'wolf' commands. Read "How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend" by the Monks of New Skete. They specialize in German Shepherd Dogs.
- his way i believe to be excellent. He talks about the reason why your dog is doing naughty stuff and has the solution. It's all cycological in the dogs mind, all animals.I've had success training one pet not to bark when someone comes in the house. I helped one girl train her dog, cycologically it all makes sense
- I think Caesar is very good entertainment. He has learned how to market himself very well. Gotta give him credit for that.
As far as his training methods go they are OLD SCHOOL some of the mechanics have some merit but he didn't come up with them they have been around for years.
I do not think they apply to all dogs and some if feel are down right dangerous! Like the Alpha roll! Just stupid!
I'm really sick of that "Pack Leader" stuff too. Catchie phrase but it is all for TV and nothing else! - I wouldnt let that man train a stuffed dog let alone one of mine.
All he does to cure a problem is flood the dog until it completely shuts down with fear. He has no understanding of positive training methods or modern theories on dogs. His ideas are hardly new they were being used 30 odd years and he has done nothing to add to them.
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
basically its an entertainment show and his books are just another way to make money. - The link below will let you see some clips from his show. I do think he is very knowledgable on what he teaches and I have tried some tricks with good results.
As for his love of pits and shepherds, well I've owned 2 pitbulls and properly bred and raised they were wonderful. I raised them with my children with no concerns and I was raised with German Shepherds. Any dog can attack "for no reason" (there is always a reason, whether we see it or not), it just seems the pitbull attacks get way more publicity. As I recall when I was growing up it seemed that every few years there was a dog breed to fear. Dobermans, Rottweilers, Shepherds, and now pitbulls. It's the breeds and owners, not the breed, that need to take the blame. - Like with all training it is a matter of what works, some say that it is not good some say it is good, I have developed my own style that works for me and my six dogs, inconsistency is the most common mistake. Everything is trial and error. I see things that work and things that don't work. So keeping and open mind is the most important thing.
- Cesar Milan is single faceted, and if you have seen one of his shows you have seen everything he has to offer. Which I disagree with BTW.
Point blank if a dog will let you Alpha roll it without ripping your face off, it doesn't need to be Alpha rolled. No properly trained dog has problems with where it's place is in the social order. The key is simple, just train the dog.
Being the "pack leader' has absolutely no connection with potty training issues or excessive barking.
edit:
"He doesn't do positive reinforcement he just makes the dogs afraid to step out of line"
The miss use of "positive reinforcement" is something I also disagree with. There are four phases of operant conditioning and positive reinforcement is only one of them. - I've had success using it with my German Shepherd and a lot of the pit bulls, labs and other dogs I work with. I agree with most of what he says and his methods.
He usues "macho" dogs a lot because he realizes that they have a bad reputation. He got his recognition by dealing with these "dangerous" types of dogs. He does feel they can be totally trustworthy under the right leadership. The dog he uses most when rehabing other dogs is his pit bull named Daddy. Daddy provides a calm-submissive state of mind that the other dogs can pick up on and enter the same state. - It is an excellent program. He is magical with the dogs. I only hope after he leaves them they are as good as they are for him on the program. I haven't read his book. Too bad you can't get the network show. He teaches a lot to you and it's amazing to see how the dog learns by his teaching methods.
- It is not just the way though, you have to communicate with the dog as well and some people who do not understand dogs should not try these without a trainer. Cesar is great, but not everyone is as good as he is with dogs. That is why unless your are a trainer you should not try all of his ideas, especially when it is an older rescue dog.
- I have a lot of thoughts about Cesar, and I probably won't fit them all in this answer. But I like Cesar. I think he is a great person, and I think he is really trying to help. I think his saying "Exercise, Discipline, Affection" is important. There really are too many pet owners who are just giving affection affection affection, and absolutely No exercises or discipline. So I think that part is important. And I try to follow that with my dog.
But most of his methods that you see on TV won't work on most dogs. He has a dominating approach, and mostly works with aggressive dogs. But there are a lot of dogs that don't need that kind of approach, and actually using that kind of approach could be damaging. Like an abused dog who is extremely fearful would need a more gentle approach. And you can find that through another trainer who uses positive reinforcement. And that is what I use to train my dog.
And I think a lot of people watch Cesars show and assume that just from watching it that they are now a dog trainer. So they might try the techniques, and actually cause more harm than good. So I think that anyone who is having behavioral issues with their dog needs to seek help from a professional, and that professional will help them determine which training method is right for their dog.
But as a whole, I like Cesar. He works with a lot of rescue dogs. He will rescue difficult dogs from deathrow at animal shelters, and rehabilitate them. He will then either keep the dog, or he will try to adopt that dog out to the right family.
And the 'gladiator' dogs. I think Cesar believes that any dog has the potential to be a great family pet, reguardless of breed. And I agree with him. I have a Pit Bull that I rescued from an animal shelter, and she has turned out to be the best companion I could Ever ask for!! She is just perfect for me. And I like that Cesar is trying to show the public that as well. Pit Bulls, Germand Shepherds, and Rottweilers aren't for everyone. But when in the right hands, and raised well, they can make excellent pets. - I think Cesar is a dangerous idiot. It scares me to think that people buy into his nonsense. All that pack leader stuff is crap. If you had children, and you let them do whatever they wanted, when ever they wanted, how ever they wanted, whether it was good or not, you have some brats wouldn't you? You have to establish rules and limits. What is and isn't acceptable. The same thing goes for dogs. It really isn't that different.
People say they've never seen him hurt a dog. Those people don't know how to read body language. There are more ways to hurt a dog than just physically.
I wouldn't let him near any of my beloved pets. His methods would have them brain dead and nuerotic.
Here is some interesting reading about Cesar. I'd rethink listening to anything he has to say.
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm
http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profes…
http://littlemind.wordpress.com/2006/09/…
To quote one of the articles:
"What critics are primarily concerned with, however, is the psychological stress that dogs are placed under during the show. Many dogs that offer avoidance behaviors at the start of the show are often pushed to the point of aggression.
One disturbing example is JonBee, a Jindo who is forced to lie on his side. After a significant and dangerous struggle (during which the dog appears to have urinated), the dog finally gives up and allows himself to be rolled over. However, the dog is not relaxed. Quite the opposite. The dog exhibits all of the signs of stress listed in the previous article, and is exhibiting a phenomenon known as learned helplessness, sometimes referred to by trainers as "shut down." "
You can bully almost anything into submission, but then, what sort of relationship do you really have? - I can't count the reasons I can't stand Cesar Milan.
His theories might be somewhat correct, but his methods are outdated and dangerous.
Take the alpha roll. Submissive rolls are GIVEN not taken. You will never see an "alpha" dog roll another on it's back and hold it there. Dogs submissive to an "alpha" roll over on their own. Dogs that are bullies (not as in bull dogs) are lacking in confidence. I think of it as napoleon syndrome. They feel the need to show others that they are strong and can take care of themselves. The best way to change that IS to become the "boss" but you don't do that through forced submission. You do that by being a good "leader". The NILIF method is a more appropriate way to become the "alpha". In canines, the "alpha" is the leader because they are confident in themselves and fair. They don't bully the other dogs/wolves. They are just respected. You will get no respect from a dog by being a bully, which is what Milan does. Your dog will fear you, but that doesn't make you a leader. It makes you a target for aggression. Eventually that dog will get tired of dealing with your picking on him.
The other way to become leader is obedience. Traditional obedience (what tom l is referring to) is the NUMBER ONE way to earn the respect of your dog. Bribing your dog does no good, bullying your dog does no good. Like with humans you EARN respect by being a fair disciplinarian.
I do kind of like the idea of his "canine bootcamp" BUT it won't translate back into your home unless YOU follow the same rules.
One trainer I prefer over Milan is Leerburg. I agree with MOST of his theories and techniques and believe they are safer and more effective than Milan's.
http://www.leerburg.com/philosophy.htm
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