Would you think this is a good option to getting a dog trained?
I have seen some answers about this before and the majority of people were adamantly against it for reasons such as the dog will never respect you as it's owner, won't listen to you etc etc...
What do you think of it?
Electronic Dog Training
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Contrary to popular opinion, "in kennel" training is the best route to go. People have a false sense of "learning to train", when in reality they are learning a "method". Methods are great if they work for YOUR dog...they can also destroy a dog. A good trainer (someone that understands dogs, can read them and has "natural talent")...not some "certified" dimwit that PAID to learn a method, can take the dog to the peak of it's abilities...then show the owner how to handle and enforce. Most people never experience this, and therefore don't know there is a difference. Group classes and private lessons generally result in the dog performing at about 40% of it's capabilities...which to most owners is completely AMAZING. Even the absolute BEST handlers fail to get the dog's full potential.
We stopped private and group lessons around 20 years ago...the results just weren't worth the time. If I come to your house and handle your dog...he's gonna act a certain way. My instruction to you would be based on the behavior I witness. As soon as I'm gone, the dog will behave differently. I can't teach someone to "read" dogs...know when to change method/technique...how hard or soft to correct...and how animated the praise should or shouldn't be. For the next week, people will blindly follow the instruction received during "class time". I can't even take a dog I know and get him out with a "plan" in mind. Things change constantly...and anything detrimental to progression takes away from the finished product.
If I want to race in NASCAR...I'm not gonna run out and buy Monte Carlo and see what I can do as far as building an engine...unless I'm happy being at the back of the pack every Sunday. To race with the Big Boys, my smartest move is to have a professional mechanic build a car for me....then show me how to drive it without blowing the engine or transmission...how to preserve fuel & tires I can't listen to an engine and explain what's wrong with it...some people have that abiltiy...not me.
Either way.....selection of your trainer is the most important issue. Avoid franchises, anyone claiming to be "certified" and of course "chain" stores. Those are the 3 "bottom of the barrel" options.
Roughly 75% of dogs we train are "re-trains" from some bogus outfit...or of course, bogus owners who simply aren't willing to do what is necessary to achieve success. Their previous bumblings make it twice as hard to train the dog, as they already have had a bad experience.
ADD: It appears Curtis is quite familiar with the people we get re-trains from. We spend 6-8 weeks for obedience....and no protection training for dogs we don't own. 99% of people that spend years "trying" to train dogs are failures. Thousands of dollars wasted at Bob's College Of K9 Training for a certificate that means nothing. I am yet to meet a Master Trainer that can train a dog. Piddle farting around with Fluffy's owner is a waste of time....unless you don't mind having your name stamped on a half-a$$ed trained dog. We'll leave that to Bark Busters & Squat Means Squat...and whoever else doesn't mind.
Search And Rescue Dog Training Advice
- No, it is the owner/handler that needs to learn how to train the dog, so sending it away to be trained means it will work for the trainer, but when it gets home the owner will probably do everything wrong and the dog will not respond correctly. Part of the fun in having a well trained dog is learning to train it correctly yourself. That is also the most rewarding.
Some people send dogs away for specialist training, like sheep herding, protection work or gundog training, but even then, that is the lazy way out and good trainers do their own training to get what they want from their own dogs.
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However it is always more productive to train your dog under a good instructor, especially if you are not experienced. - I used to be that trainer at a kennel who people sent their dog to. I didn't make the decision to start taking that kind of clients, and I never liked it. I think it's a waste of time and money for the most part.
Can more advanced trainers send their dog to be taught more specialized tasks like hunt work? Sure. The difference is that those owners have already done some training and they know what it takes to make that kennel training time worthwhile. This is not the case for 75% of dog owners who's dogs need training.
It CAN work, but it requires that people are willing to spend the money to do it right, are willing to invest the time into learning how to handle the dog afterwards, and that people have at least some understanding of how to maintain it. The reality is, most people don't. They just want a magically trained dog that does everything they say with no effort. - In my opinion it has nothing to do with respect. Many working dogs ie police k-9s are not trained by their handlers but still respect them as the one being in charge. It is a matter of follow through. The majority of owners who send their dogs away for just basic training (which is what we are talking about here) aren't going to follow through with the training and enforce it at home. Since there is no follow through the dog quickly "relapses" because the realize the behavior is not enforced in this environment. The may get sent back to training where the immediately go back to what they are suppose to do because the behavior is enforced in that environment. That is where I think some people get the mistaken impression the dog only "respects" the person that trained them, when it is really a matter of them doing what the know is expected of them
- No, it's not a good idea. The owner of the dog needs to know how to "operate" the dog, same way you can get into a car that's in perfect running order but if you don't know how to drive you won't have much luck making the car go anywhere. If the owner doesn't know how to maintain the training, the dog will soon become untrained again. People seem to think that once a dog is trained, that's it. Not true. You must reinforce the dog's training every single day in some way. It's best if the owner and the dog go together to get trained. As a professional trainer once said to me "We can train any dog in 2 days. It takes longer to train the owners"
- I would say it depends on the dog and the owner.
If, for example, you have a very difficult dog and a weak owner, I think it would benefit the dog to be in a different environment with people who know what they are doing, and then bring the owner in to learn how to handle the dog once it is trained. I would think there would also need to be followup training, once the dog goes home.
On the other hand, if the dog is NOT difficult, or the owner is capable of dealing with issues (just needs to learn how to do it), then I think it would work better to train with the owner, and leave the dog in its current environment. - It's totally not something I'd consider doing. I saw a GSD who was sent away on a course with a training company. He came back and was just as bad as before. I firmly believe you have to work with your dog and although an outside trainer can put a dog through the basics, this still has to be translated to him listening to YOU.
Waste of money. Far better, if you can't get a dog sorted out yourself and need guidance, would be either training classes, where a good instructor will be able to assess how you are relating to your dog, or a one-to-one trainer who comes to your house.
I personally don't think it's a matter of respect, but more a bonding - with you learning which buttons to push to get what you want out of your dog. Dogs are living beings not inanimate objects to be programmed. - No, I think it is important for the owners to be involved with training so that the dog will listen and respond to them, and not just the trainer. In obedience class, one of the dogs had a few private sessions with the trainer which only confused the dog because she kept looking to the trainer for guidance instead of the owner. Both owner and dog should learn under the supervision of a professional trainer so training can continue at home.
- BMTHESPIAN is the ONLY correct answer in here. The owner does not nee to learn ANYTHING other then how to HANDLE his ALREADY trained dog.
Since 98% of all owners have no idea how to train a dog effectively, sending a dog to a training facility is the smartest thing they can do.
The dog learns under no owner stress, the owner learns how to handle their dog once it is done training and the owner NEEDS, MUST keep up the work done by the trainer in order for this whole operation to be a success.
The problem here lies when people "think" they know what they are doing, "imagine" that the trainer will somehow torture Fifi with his demands and the poor dog will suffer.
The REALITY is that people like me would be out of work if a trained dog could not adjust to a new handler...the military police dogs change handlers 5-6 times in their working lives, police dogs sometimes have to do it too...its all part of life.
Owners are not trainers, nor do most of them want to be, they simply want a dog they can handle and they can have that by letting a pro take the dog and train it. Hope I helped.
ADD: Yes Aphrodite, you are correct, once I train your dog, you are going to get trained as well in how to HANDLE the dog and what he knows.
There is no sense in JUST training the dog and doing NOTHING with the owner, is there? - Nope, wouldn't do it.
Sending your dog away to boot camp does nothing but make you a lazy dog owner with a dog that still won't listen to you. I knew a dog that got sent away with to a camp and came back with a training collar. Yea, way to go boot camp, you really brought out the big guns...
Someone above said they get to go to the training camp once a week and practice the commands with their dog. Not enough. Dogs need consistency. If you come around once a week, they aren't going to think crap about listening to you at home.
The most important thing in dog training is for you and your dog to do it together, with a professional or not. Having someone else do it is lazy and gets you nowhere. - I'm not for it or against it - it's up to the owner to continue the training after the dog comes back. I've seen a lot of dogs that were sent away for training - then when the get back home the owner thought "oh, that's it, my dog is trained" then they don't follow though and the dogs ends up in the same spot it was before it left!
- Oh my buthole certainly feels cleansed after reading the last answer here. Right from my own web page onto the wonderful facility that is yahoo answers. I take it as an honor you respect my ideas so much to take them as your own. Tell me, is there anything you haven't learned from me? I think you may have a severe case of verbal diarrhea but constipation of the mind, what other explanation could there be after reading your answer and getting deja vu from my own web page.
Does this below seem familiar to anyone?
http://leerburg.com/philosophy.htm
''At the other end of the scale, on the right side, is the second category of dog trainers. These are trainers who intimidate or force their dogs to do what they want (the William Koehler trainers). I call them the old school “yank and crank” trainers.
They put a choke collar on a dog and force it to do everything. Most professional dog trainers use these methods because for them "time is money" and they can get a dog trained much quicker by forcing the dog to perform. The bottom line is with enough force a dog can be trained to do almost anything.'' - Stupid... most if not all dogs can pick up on their training, its the owners who I think are failing. They are not training correctly and/or have no idea what they're doing. Part of training (esp with your 1st dog) is not only about the dog learning but about the owner learning to.
I think it is stupid an owner needs to know how to correctly command something and what there dog does and doesn't respond to. If people are going to send their dogs off to a training boot camp then I think they are incapable of having a dog and utterly lazy to say the least. - I am againist is soley because the training classes that have the owner there not only train the dog but train the owner as well and many times the owner needs it to.
I believe that I don't need anymore training. And I have considered this for a future dog since there is one near by somewhere between here and Seattle. - hello!
well i did send me dog away to get her trained and i visit it her once in a week to practice the commands with her!
she learn some commands but not all of them!!i started training her at home and she learn things in no time!!
i suggest training at home! but a training away could also work!
i am not totally against away-training but i recommend the home way!!the only thing i m sure about is that my next dog will be trained at home!
hope i helped!!
thank you! - Not likely to help much unless it is the company of a pack of dogs that is causing the issues.
I'd advise the person having difficulties with their dog to read up on Calming Signals at Turid Rugass web site. Once you're both on the same wavelength then behaviour can begin to be modified - I saw it in action: my mom could not enforce a command, could not project it in a way to be payed attention to (by children OR dogs) the dogs even those with OBEDIENCE titles payed no atttention to her. taking a dog to a CLASS where YOU learn obedienceas well as the dog would solve thiskind of problem...most of those classes focus on teaching YOU
- Well, that solves the problem of the dog not listening/ not being trained
In most cases, you are still left with the problem of the owner not having a clue of what to do with the damn dog...even if it was trained perfectly by someone else. - To me it is useless. The OWNER needs training. If the owner does not go with the dog how the heck is the owner going to learn anything?!!
ADD: After reading Greek, Dutch, Curtis and Uncle Ed (who IS this person? Really?)
My head hurts. - I would never send my dog to a "trainer". It's better for you and the dog to learn yourselves. Patience and persistence pays off.
- Training the dog yourself will give you a stronger bond with each other. Plus s/he will see you as the leader, and so s/he'll have respect for you.
- in my opinion, its the owners needing to learn how to train their dog.Sending the dog away does no good if the owner has no idea what to do.
- I have never considered sending my dog away for training. I guess I haven't found that much of a problem with him to even think about it.
After reading the answers it definitely gives you an alternate way of thinking.
I'm doing basic obedience right now. My trainer hasn't once handled my dog. He has shown me how to handle my dog by using his own dog but that's about it. I'm not sure if he's ever going to handle my dog or not. I would assume the reasoning is that I need to learn how to do these basic corrections and what not myself.
Again, it may also have to do with the level of training you are looking for etc.
No idea lol. I'm not a trainer. I think a first time dog owner needs to learn simple commands and how to handle their dog themselves as well.
@GREEK - Just because I don't know anything about sending your dog away for training, when the dog comes back does the owner have to go through training with the dog too?
Like a 2 step program?
Step 1 - they condition your dog
Step 2 - owner and dog continue training to teach the owner how to handle the dog.
Am I getting that right? - When you send your dog off to be trained you miss the opportunity to SEE your dog finally understand what you're asking of him...
I'm not saying you're missing the magic...I'm saying your dog will never have that moment...why?
Because "professional" trainers don't have time for positive reinforcement training and marker training...they beat your dog's @$$, use Koehler yank and crank, and send you back a dog who's a tad hand shy but sits real good when the prong collar comes out. Good trainers don't accept send ins. It's a waste of their time to do so. You can stay here as long as you like and I can walk you through handling your dog ad laying down basic commands...I can even teach you how to half @$$ train in a few weeks. But I'm not going to bring your dog here, train it, and send it home a dog who still doesn't care what you have to say. Nor am I going to helicopter it, yank it around, and used negative punishment to train it in 3 weeks so I can get my money while knowing it takes 3 times as long to correctly train a Schutzhund 3 dog to a police dog (which as you can imagine takes less training than teaching a dog who doesn't know how to learn a dozen or more new behaviors vs modifying a few known behaviors...hmmmm).
A fool and his gold are soon parted...a fool who sends off his dog often gets returned a fearful dog who hates doing anything resembling work. Name a half decent trainer who accepts trainees in the mail...just one...-crickets chirp- there are none. There's no nats competitors, no winners of ****, no nothing....nobody with a reputation does this...only fly by night "training centres" and Hank & Hals You Bring 'em and I'll String 'em...-edit- Here's an example of what happens when you send your dog off asked right here on Y!A: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;… - Search on google
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