I always taught obedience with a choke chain for ALL size dogs, with the same snap and release. IMO no matter what the size, the training should be the same. So why do some many small breed owners use regular collars or harnesses which give no control and encourage pulling? Do they think that the dogs neck is too fragile or is training not as big of a deal?
Dog Training Aids and Tools Work! Just Learn How to Use Them
Recommended Answer:
Do I think small breeds should be trained the same as large breeds? YES omg yes!
With a little difference - CLEARLY the corrections would be adjusted according to the size of the dog. I'm not going to give a little Chihuahua the same force on a correction as I do with my Doberman.
Why don't small breed owners use training tools? Because you're right - they think they are going to hurt their poor little itty bitty wittle puppy.
They even make smaller sized prong collars (not for the very small breeds, but for small breeds).
ADD: Ugh, again with the not reading questions properly. What is wrong with people??
The asker is not asking as though all dogs need to be trained with choke chains and prongs - the question is regarding training in general.
You can't give your dog a snap correction with your buckle collars? It doesn't matter what you use.
ADD2: Um and yeah, about the prongs collapsing a dog's trachea and how dangerous they are: A prong collar has a limited slip - this means that it can only tighten so far. This feature prevents the dog from having the breath choked out of him. It also prevents neck injuries that can be caused by choke chains, such as a collapsing trachea, soft tissue damage, and damage to the spine. Radiographs (X-rays) of dogs that have been trained with choke chains have shown misalignment of the cervical vertebrae, and choke chains have also resulted in injured ocular blood vessels, severely sprained necks, fainting, transient foreleg paralysis, laryngeal nerve paralysis, and hind leg ataxia.
7 Most Believed Myths About Dogs And Dog Training Dispelled
- ??? a choke chain doesn't need to be used for every dog. I have a 33 lb corgi and I have only ever use a regular collar and he is trained very well. Some dogs need it and some don't. But I do agree that every dog should be well trained.
- I agree that all sizes of dogs should be trained the same, but completely disagree with your choke chain theory. I use a regular collar on my dog and she walks perfectly. There's no need for choke chains, I have all the control I need over my pup in her regular collar.
- I prefer prongs over chokes, myself. Works a treat on my small dogs :)
- I think small breeds and large breeds should be trained according to their temperament. Those dogs who need choke chains should have them - size is irrelevant.
My older Belgian is going through an open obedience class now and there's not a dog in the class who wears a choke chain with the exception of a husky who can't be controlled without it. You tailor the method, as well as corrections, to fit the dog. The instructor, who is a licensed obedience judge, takes each dog's temperament into account, too. Every dog in the class reaches the same point in the end, but they don't all get there in exactly the same way. - I have never understood why it is OK to have a little dog that is a PITA. My dogs range from a 4 lb. Chihuahua to a 75 lb. Lab, I expect the same behavior from my Chi that I do from the Lab. People are shocked that I have a Chi that doesn't bark at everything that moves and wouldn't snap at a fly let alone a person. That crap isn't tolerated in my house.
- My sister often thought this as well with her rat terrier. She use to use a harness.
Guess what?
Between her sissy and training classes she is now using a prong collar and realizes its the best thing to use even though her dog is small.
I don't think people should baby their dogs just because its a small breed. If the dog needs a corrective collar to be trained then use it. Because the dogs are small, more fragile and less to control they often don't train them well and let them get away with things a larger breed wouldn't be able to. I do not agree with it. - My 25 lb dog was born with a condition that makes her cough whenever there's slight tugging on her trachea. But she could have been a 100 lb dog and still had the same condition or a similar one. So I would determine the tool based on individual dog, not size.
I really think it has to do with how you train no-pulling, than what you put on the dog. My dogs both wear harnesses..that's my own problem lol..I didn't want anything around their neck and my other dog with no trachea problems could have cared less. I taught loose leash walking with harnesses though, and it's been successful.
Add: It probably took longer for my dogs to learn loose leash walking than if I had used collars instead of harnesses, but I don't know, since I never tried with collars. All I know is, it took 1-2 months, and ever since they have always been loose leash walkers and controlled by me. If I put the leash on the collar, my dog will pull because it wasnt trained with a collar ever. Maybe if my dogs were huskies or malamutes, harnesses would be a problem.. I've always took the training approach of "where there's a will, there's a way" LOL..and my will is really strong and I wanted to train my dogs to no-pull with regular harnesses, and did it.
I did get a little scolding from their trainer at first like "a harness will make him walk in front all the time" and "not enough control" but then she ended up saying how good the dogs walk! - As an owner of a Papillion I want to train my puppy like he's a dog, any dog. Part of the reason many toy breeds get yappy and snappy is because they are babied and they start to realize they are in charge (a dog that yaps all the time thinks it has the most important voice in the house). It is my mission to NOT have a dog like that. I want a dog, my apartment only fits a little dog, but that doesn't mean he's different from a big one ... in general.
On the other hand, toy breeds are slightly more fragile than a larger dog. They are fine-boned and their trachea's are more fragile. I honestly think a prong or chain collar would crush my dogs throat. BUT, that doesn't mean that I am not going to train him to walk on a leash properly. We use a harness for our dog, because his neck is fragile, but if he pulls on a walk, we stop and wait. He knows that him pulling = me stopping = us not going anywhere until he walks with a proper loose leash.
A harness doesn't "encourage pulling" an owner not responding to a pulling dog is what encourages it. A harness just makes it less painful for a dog to pull. In the case of a Toy breed, that "pain" a collar can cause can be VERY serious, versus the discomfort a larger dog might experience.
There are not a lot of training devices designed for Toy breeds that are equal to the standards for medium to large dogs. But beyond the physical collar I am using to walk my dog with, the attitude and training motivation and techniques are the same as I would use for any dog.
PS: There is a German Shepard and two golden's in our puppy classes. And those are my dog's favourite friends. - Some small breeds are prone to tracheal collapse and spinal injuries (the neck is part of the spine). Some large breeds are also prone to tracheal collapse, like Standard Poodles.
If the dog has these health risks, you would not want to use leash pops on a neck collar as you could inadvertently injure the dog. Chokes and prongs are out of the question on these breeds. Many of them are safer with a head collar or a harness.
Some small breeds, like Pugs, have necks larger than their heads, so a neck collar is not a lot of help as they can and do back out of them.
ETA: You're really getting back to the question of whether there is one training method for all dogs. You can try one method on every dog and every breed.
But most trainers are more successful having a few different training plans at their disposal and applying them as needed based on the individual dog before them. - I see both sides. Yes, you could use a choke collar on a dog and treat them the same as bigger dogs (with the exceptions of using your strength). But the reason that little dogs are often taught on harnesses and such, is because they are more fragile. If you put a choke collar on a little dog, it wouldn't go so well. It could definitely work though. What I'm trying to say is, you shouldn't treat them exactly the same, big and small, there are reasons for their size. A chihuahua is built differently from a Labrador Retriever. I will go and rough play with my lab, but if I rough play exactly the same with a chihuahua, there's a huge chance that the dog will end up broken in some way (bones broken). So small breed owner use regular collars and harnesses for a few possible reasons. It could be because the owner is not experienced. Or maybe they don't know that it gives no control and encourages pulling. There are tons of reasons why people are doing this. But I suggest that you do what you think you should do, and let other people do what they think they should do. Only if the situation is way out of hand, should you step in and tell them what to do. I, myself, have a lab, and I have only used a regular collar. And guess what? I've had compliments on how good my dog is. Some dogs need a choke collar and such sort, and some don't. Hopefully this helps you.
- I think dogs, regardless of size, should be well behaved.
What is required to accomplish that varies with the dog.
I walk four small dogs (three mine and one foster) at the same time with harnesses, and I have no trouble whatsoever keeping them in line. In fact, I frequently get compliments from passersby when they see the group sitting quietly beside me at the curb.
Ive trained over a dozen small dogs to do the same thing over the last year, all with harnesses.You can "pop" a dog with any tool, including a harness. The current foster dog I have now is a Sheltie, and very soft dog...there is no way she needs a choke chain. The same is true of my Westie - she learned to walk beside me the very first day I brought her home, and she has been glued to my heel ever since. She never even required a pop - simple pressure from the harness is more than enough for her.
My 75 lb dog I walk with a choke chain. She tends to get very excited when we start the walk, and she needs a couple of pops to get her attention, then she walks on a loose leash.
My 100 lb Lab mix needs a prong collar, but he is the first dog I have had in 45+ years that I could not easily control with either a harness, flat collar, or, worst case scenario, a choke chain. - OF COURSE they should be trained like large dogs!
I use a choke collar on my Pomeranian, why wouldn't I!!!
I also train my Pomeranian with traditional training methods- Koehler.
My Pomeranian consistently beats the big dogs when I compete.
Oh and for the record my Pomeranian came from a history of documented abuse by Animal Control. I know there are those that say traditional dog training methods do not work on Soft dogs or abused dogs.
The problem with small dog owners is they fail to recognize their dog is a dog and not a toy!
Pomeranians were a working breed of dog before they were made into a fashion item by so many. You will never see a happier Pomeranian then one that has a job.
The reason so many small dogs are miserable is because of their owners failing to treat them like the have a brain. - Well gosh durn gosh golly. I will be tarred and feathered, banished to a deserted island and beaten around the head and feet for this answer. Get ready, set and go....
I have TEN dogs. Four over 50 pounds. Six under 20 pounds.
They ALL have prong collars. Yep. And I use them when needed. Yep. Even my 7 pound Chi. Yep. There you go.
Go ahead.......I'm ready. I have a helmet on and have a choke hold my American Pit Bull Terrier because she's gonna save me........(not!) - Dog training is temperament and drive specific. not breed or size specific.
you would definitely not use as much force with a smaller breed simply because the force used to correct 120lb dog would pull a 5lb dog off his feet and would likely injure the dog, but the methods would be the same. I have seen micro prong collars and e-collars used with great success with small dogs. No matter what the dogs size I'm still going to try to use as much positive reinforcement and proof it with as little correction as possible to achieve a reliable behavior.
I don't like choke chains, i like a prong collar personally. i feel it has better control without applying undo force on the neck. The choke chain applies all of it's pressure to a small point on the dog's neck, the prong collar applies it equally because it pulls from the two ends of the collar. as well you can connect it to the dead ring as well as the live and not apply any compression for the more sensitive dogs.
harnesses are designed to make pulling comfortable, simply wearing it will not encourage pulling but it will become less aversive when they do. Small dog owners tend to use them because the dog pulling on them barely phases them. What they don't realize is that pulling like that creates frustration, we use this reaction in protection and guard dog training to create frustration and build drive to bite the target. The same method is used for a lot of dog training including obedience and tracking, however the reason is always the same to build frustration.and drive so they complete the task with intensity once released.
Hope i didn't rant too much there and answered enough of your question. - SIZE is not the issue, temperament and personality are the issue.
Although there are certain issues to keep in mind when training small breeds, as they view the world from a far different perspective than large ones, and are more at risk in a mixed training/trialing setting. - I train my 15 pound chimutt no differently than I train my 90lbs GSD. Of course the corrections are lighter to take into account his size and temperament but, the training is the same.
I think the "sensitive neck" crap is just that: Crap. I think that the people who've damaged small dog's necks with choke collars are ***** who weren't smart enough to you know...make the correction fit the size of their dog. - They can be trained with the exact same methods. You have to obviously moderate the strength behind your corrections, especially if you are use to working with big dogs. What would simply be a "hey pay attention" correction on a stubborn large dog, could easily sent a small dog flying.
My only exception to the "no dog should be walked on a harness" rule is dogs that are prone to collapsed trachea which are much more common in some small dog breeds. If the dog is on a harness for this reason I have no problem with it, if it is on a harness just because it is a little dog there is no reason for it. I have no problem using a regular buckle collar to train with if it is effective for that dog. Some dogs are soft enough that a leash pop on a buckle collar is all the correction needed. I'm a big fan of using what ever tools are appropriate for the individual dog. I have no problem using an appropriately sized choke or prong collar on a small dog if that is the right tool for the job, just as I have no problem with using a buckle collar to train a large dog if it is so soft that it is all that is needed. - Well sometimes small breed puppies have a smaller neck and thus it is easier to break. I guess this happens to people that like to drag there puppies to much and break there necks.
Im just saying that probably it wasn't the dogs fault but the owners.
Yeah you are right though, if you are a good owner and you understand how to train a dog then a regular neck collar works.
Thanks - I don't think that you should be using a choke collar with force.
No comments:
Post a Comment