I'm particularly interested in those who "train" by swatting their dogs. Where did you learn that?
*Mine is a mix of watching my mom work with the danes we had growing up and the research I've done. I've only seen one person who thought extreme physical contact with a dog was acceptable. This man called himself a trainer...and he literally forced a dog to the floor while yelling "DOWN" in the dog's face. Funny....because this man had been my uncle's dogs' trainer for months. And the dog STILL did not understand the command.
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I was very lucky, as a youngster my parents introduced me to some of the dog sports best trainers. Most of what I use is based on methods developed by Rex Carr. The biggest disservice Rex ever did to us was not writing a book which makes it so that we have to look to those that he taught for information. Two of the most popular sources at this time are "10 minute retriever" by Amy Dahl, and "Smartworks for Retrievers" by Evan Grahm. And then there are many articles that were written by both Mike Lardy and Dennis Voigt.
But if you are asking if I buy into all the "positive reinforcement BS" the answer is hell no! Positive reinforcement is probably the most misunderstood and misused terminology on the planet.
Positive reinforcement is only one of four operant conditioning phases, and one without the other three is about as useless as using nothing at all. The art in training is understanding when and why any one of the four is the proper course of action.
There is simply a hell of a lot more to Pavlov than ringing a bell to get a cookie.
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- I took my dogs through local training clubs. Because they both are from rescues, the fees were nominal.
We learned to teach our dogs "down" first by luring them with a treat (so they associated the command with the behavior) then with continuous practicing. Another method I've seen is stepping on the dog's leash where the only comfortable thing to do would be for the dog to get in the down position, but I've never tried that technique.
NEVER would I swat a dog: they associate the swat with the human hand, not with the behavior they were/were not supposed to do. Hitting a dog during training only causes future problems. - Ive always read training books. I have about 50 but recently Greekman has tough me things those books never mentioned.
No BS rewarding only good Behavior and ignoring bad behavior because you can't ignore a dog snapping at someone. He has taught me what REAL training is.
One man has taught me more than 50 books have in 10years.
Now ain't that something!
ADD* Also training my own dog I know what works for him and what doesn't so those techniques I have picked up from my own dog. - Mine is a complete mix from reading books, watching tv, many behaviourists, training classes. I have adopted what works for my current dog and use bits from all resouses.
I personally don't think that there is only one way to train a dog, i think each dog is different and you need to adopt different ways of training for each one..
Some need a firm hard training regime(not violence) and some need a quiet calm approach depending on the breed and personality of the dog.. - Well, I learned a lot from when I was a child about what NOT to do.
I think training has really evolved. Mostly good, some not. People (hopefully) aren't shoving noses in "oopsies" anymore.
As for what I do now? Most of it came from trial and error. Positive reinforcement, and redirection of bad behavior has worked very well for me. However, I know I've made some mistakes, but I learn from them, and I will continue to be a better trainer as life goes on.
I feel, that as time goes on, we learn from our experiences, both good and bad, and go from there. I feel that not a single novice dog owner can make all the right decisions, and a very experienced owner will always continue to learn and evolve with their training practices. - Mine, like you was a combo of watching my mom with her rescue Danes, and me doing my own research before we got our two rescue Pitties.
It was also the trial and error we went through with Maggie. She was so sensitive, it took alot more than we were both prepared for, but we did it. And look at her now =]
Hitting/swatting dogs does not do anything. They are not like children, they can NOT connect the hitting with what they did wrong. Positive reinforcement is the way I go. - I got my first dog at the age of 4. Watched & helped my older brother train him.
By the time I was a teen, communicating with animals was pretty much second nature. It worked better for me than understanding my own peers!
Then, in my 20's through late 30's I trained with loads of other trainers in both agility & obedience. I learned a lot of good, bad, effective and not-so-effective training methods....and how to tell the difference, what works well for me and what doesn't.
To date I've expanded the delicate nature of dog communication and broadened my understanding of the species. I've also learned more about myself as a human. I actively engage in pet assisted therapy.....my most rewarding venture in doing anything with dogs.
Hitting or swatting? Never. My Dad was into that with me....so I knew better than to pass that along to any other living creature....be it a dog, cat, or child. - When I was a kid I worked at a kennel under a professional trainer. In addition to training pets, he also trained dog for our local K9 force and ran a sled team. I learned a lot from him.
I've also done a lot of research. and reading.
And more importantly I've TRAINED a lot of dogs. (even had a stint in a petco as a trainer for a while - what BS that was)I've learned what works and what doesn't. - I learned through training classes with respected, certified trainers and through my volunteer work at a large inner city shelter.
And IMO no trainer worth his salt would try to 'teach' a dog that way. It is pretty common knowledge these days that physical punishment is not an effective way to train a dog. - my dogs taught me!!!!!!
seriously though, ive learnt from a crufts winner, a police dog handler, other trainers, college, books, internet and trial and error, i do train dogs for others now but i dont call myself qualified and i never will, qualified means you know all there is to know and i never will, things are always changing hopefully for the better!
erm.... never heard of swatting tho!? - Well...it was kind of trial and error. Luckily my first dog is smart and knows what I want even if I have a hard time getting it through to her!
I've bought multiple books, probably paid everyone on goggle's salary AND met some really intelligent people here who have helped me a ton! - My father is a physical swat kind of person...so I DEFINATELY didnt learn from him.
A combination of common sense, research, the people on here, and finding what works is where I found my training techniques. - I guess it's been mostly research and trial & error for me. I only once used a trainer and that's when I had a dog with some serious resource guarding problems.
- I was exposed to dog training back in my native Europe at the age of 12 and got hooked ever since. My first exposure was under a gentleman name Aggie Smies who at that time had been training in the KNPV for almost 40 years, I guess he knew a thing or two. I continued my education and learned under some of the most influential trainers in Belgium and Holland. None of these people believed in the "positive only" crap that is being spewed today.
I kept up my studies here and I am STILL learning every day.
I have attended hundreds of seminars and I have taught almost as many.
I have trained with some of the best trainers in this country, REAL trainers who instinctively understand a dog and what makes one work.
It has been over 30 years since then and I am PROUD to say that this is a never ending process.
I look at some people in here, like Tom L who has been training longer then I have been alive and I study his answers like the bible, I look at animal artworks and a few others and I absorb everything they say and add it to my collection of training ideas. Dog training is not rocket science, but, it is also not what most people think it is either! - i began with my pup in 4-H -
i was a 10 to 11 YO kid; my pup was 4-mos-old - we thought
he was 6-mos old, LOL; my mentor/instructor was a pro-trainer and
also a German Shepherd breeder.
Mrs Frank Arnold had beautiful dogs with wonderful structure,
pigment, and TEMP - her dogs were fantastic. calm but alert,
reserved with strangers, tolerant of other dogs, responsive...
and she herself was a very-progressive trainer, for the time.
we used choke-collars that could be switched from slip to
still-collars with a buckle.
she PRAISED the dogs at least 3 to 4 times as much as she ever
'corrected' them/punished, even mildly.
her adult dogs were all AKC-utility titled - they were brilliant,
willing + happy. since then
--------------------------
i've taken telecourses, seminars, workshops, volunteered, done
hands-on training with pups, teens, seniors, shelter dogs, and
family pets, read books, watched videos, etc and so on.
i think that (like monty roberts) NO * ONE has the right to say to
any animal, YOU * WILL or Else! that sort of threat is not teaching
or training - it is mere bullying, and the animal will look for ways to
avoid compliance.
POSITIVELY-reinforced, OC-trained animals *offer* the trained
behavior freely - no threats, force or compulsion are needed to
prompt the behavior, once trained.
the animal does it WILLINGLY - happily! - and to a better + better
standard, too, if the criteria are maintained.
skip the Cesar-Millan wannabe choking, hanging, hitting, poking +
startling - instead, MANAGE to improve the odds of the wanted
behavior being the sole option/one of a few, REWARD the desired
behavior, INTERRUPT or Re-DiRECT the un-wanted behavior. - I learned a lot from watching my dad. he trained and worked with GSD's on the Police force. He was shocked when I ended up with a lab after having GSD's my whole life, but thats another story =]
I learned from my dad, but also read as much as a could about lab's and how to effectively train them. It should be noted that Rocko shredded the first two "guide books" on training a Lab. It took me a lot of time to start seeing success, and we are STILL having occasional set-backs. ( he's two now). When teaching the dog" no bites, I did use a light nose swat correction, but it was never in a hard, abusive way. Then we replaced our hand with a toy that was OK to bite. That was the only behavior problem that we ever corrected with a physical correction. Potty training involved a lot of watching... As soon as he started sniffing, or if he did squat it was a mad dash to grab him and run to the backyard before he finished. I don't believe in the "shove his nose in it and say NO!" Any scolding AFTER the fact seems pointless to me... they have no idea what they did at that point. Thats something my dad taught me. If you don't catch them in the act, then they got away it as far as training is concerned. This seems to be true for us, and can be very frustrating when we find out he has done something BAD and gotten away with it. His biggest vice? Tupperware that is drying on the dish rack! grr!! He's getting better and better, but this dog isn't winning any "obedience" contests anytime soon! *sigh* but we love him regardless...
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