Why does it seem like everyone here is suddenly promoting Ceaser Millan's training methods?
Millan uses a very old form of dog training- positive punishment. He is giving the dog something it does not like (IE: taping, alpha rolls, etc. etc.).
In all honesty, his methods are not only out of date, but also downright dangerous. I've seen little old ladies trying to give their giant breed dogs an alpha roll because it playfully nipped at the maltese it was playing with. Are you people kidding? The answer to every problem is NOT "your dog is being dominant". The only real pack leader replacement is another dog! YES you can be a part of your dog's pack. YES you can communicate with your dog. But don't fool yourself into thinking that you can give your dog "alpha rolls" every fifteen seconds and expect it to have any self-respect.
What you see on camera and what really happens are two COMPLETELY different things.
So, what method of training do you use?
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Recommended Answer:The power of TV and celebrity. It's a shame really. Not only are his methods outdated but the whole concept of pack hierarchy was based on studies of captive wolves, which as it turns out do not behave like wild wolves.
I also think that Cesar's technique fit in well with the way westerners think of relationships in general. Someone's on top and someone isn't, someone is the leader and someone is the follower. Not that that isn't true in some cases but to base relationships with an entire species on this foundation means that people see dogs' behaviors as challenges rather than what they most likely are, patterned reactions to a certain set of stimuli or just basic doggie opportunism with no agenda or challenge involved.
So while the guy has good instincts and can handle dogs his training methods and worse, his diagnosis of problems, provide more reasons for people to hurt and scare their dogs. And yes, scaring a dog can change its behavior, so people see that, not the underlying body language that shouts, I'm doing what you want, but I'd rather run and hide! Dogs aren't thinking when they're afraid and so changes in behavior will not likely 'stick' when the pressure is taken off of them.
I have heard that he's making some changes and has actually encourages people to books by trainers like Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnel, Ian Dunbar, etc.
www.fearfuldogs.com
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- ....Thus, the disclaimer at the bottom of the screen at the beginning of every episode.
I use his method, and have never had better trained dogs (5 of them). My family is EXTREMELY dog-centric and we are very tuned into our animals, and can see that our approach is working. People on walks comment on how well-behaved and happy our dogs look.
- His concept is completely sound.
His methods are crude.
It's a TV show for masses.
IMHO, better than nothing for many dog "owners"
- I have never seen him alpha roll a dog.. He makes them lay on their side til they forget about what they were worked up over.. He gives them a slight tap in the rear w/ his foot to get their attention.. Break their focus on what ever it is that has their attention.
There are many things that he does that are great.. There are things he does that he shouldn't be showing on tv, and making people think that just anyone can do that..
Just like any trainer out there.. there are good things and there are things that not everyone would agree with or not everyone should practice.. He has helped alot of people understand their dogs more.. Just the mere fact that he tells you that DOGS ARE DOGS is a benefit and a value..
He has his place... just like everything else.
- I use Cesar's methods and not only do I rule my 4 dogs my 5 cats do also.
- I agree with the first answer, while I personally have never used alpha rolls, nor do I promote them specifically, Cesar's approach to training is right on the money. You CAN be the leader of your family's pack, and there are different ways to get there, but it definitely creates a more harmonious living situation and more trainable dogs. I don't believe anything he does endangers himself or the dogs, and he DOES say that he doesn't suggest you try any of that stuff at home. He also doesn't ever say that every problem is related to the dog being dominant; just as often the dog is not dominant, but is fearful because nobody else is showing dominance either, and it doesn't know who to follow.
Everybody is always going to have their own take on Cesar, but personally, I think he's a genius, and I'd love to meet him someday.
- I treat them with respect and firmly tell them no when they do something they should not. When they do something good i pet them and give them a treat. After a month or so they start to act in the manner you wish with out and positive or negative reinforcement.
- We watch the Dog Whisperer over here and have some of the dvds too. It has helped us quite a bit. I cant use some of his techniques because they are too harsh for my sensitive big guy but people need to be smart enough to pick and choose methods that seem to suit their dog's needs. A lot of his philosophies have really helped us over here and we do have a beautifully behaved English Mastiff. I think it is more important for dog owners to realize that there is probably not one method that will apply to their dog but many in combination.
- well I like the dog whisperer because I learn alot about different dog breeds. And I like SOME things he says, like to use more exercise to fix any behavioral problems, thats simple and I found it worked with mine..and better than any thing harsh or using drugs to calm the dog down or something.
I did try that dog roll thing when my puppy was in that puppy biting stage, and it was NOT a good idea definately. She saw that as just more struggling. i think only professional dog trainers should do the puppy roll thing. or in some cases if you have to break up a dog fight?
One more thing I like about the dog whisperer is he says dogs live in the present, i found that to be true and something helpful to remember.
But yeah I agree his methods arent for every dog or dog owner, and i like positive reinforcement better.
Whoops one more thing i learned and liked about dog whisperer is watching for clues of bad behavior/fixation and stopping it before something bad happens.
but yeah when i see someone answer a question with Just "watch dog whisperer" thats kind of annoying
- Although his methods may be out of date, they certainly do work. I totally disagree with you on your idea of the only real pack leader replacement is another dog. When you decide to adopt or purchase a pet, you are assuming responsibility on that animal, thus becoming it's caregiver. You are the one that has to train it to listen to you and follow your commands. You provide food for your pet, provide shelter, and water. I believe that in the wild this is what the alpha or pack leader also does. Hence, you are the alpha pack leader as your pet depends on you to provide all his needs. As for the comment on giving your dog "alpha rolls" every 15 secs., this shouldn't be necessary if you have a dog who is well trained, and loyal to you. Everyone has their own opinions of things, and I respect your opinions on Mr. Millan, however, don't try and push your believes off on others.
- While I don't completely agree with some of his methods, being 'top dog' in my house has gotten me out of some pretty sticky situations.
I have brought dogs into my house (rescues) and put them in their place by standing over them and ignoring them until they came to me for attention.
I can also back down my dogs by walking up to them and using a certain tone of voice w/o ever touching them.
One of my dogs, will not roll over on command b/c he is trying to maintain some sort of dignity, but the other does it almost immediately (especially if there is food involved).
Honestly, I am the pack leader, and I am not afraid to reassert this leadership roll if I have to!
- i agree with u. people here say "call cesar millan he will come and help u" for every training problem. his methods r very outdated. i dont use them. never have never will. i use my own methods of training my dogs. i figure out ways of training my dogs. and if i am having problems i call a trainer IN MY AREA that i can actually contact and talk to about my problems. sure some people think that watching the show is going to help them with their problems but in the end nothing beats a trainer u can go see for urself and meet in person that will actually help u
- I don't use his method for training, since it isn't a training method. I use it to modify behavior and it works if you actually "get" how to do it. I'm not on camera,,but it still works like magic, in almost not time at all. I am able to groom dogs now with no muzzle or fuss, when before they were impossible to give a good smooth haircut, and constantly snapped and bit. I never have to resort to laying them down, and since they don't belong to me, I would never get physical. I only use the 'energy' part, and it is amazing how it works. My personal dogs had no issues with actual training, but now when I go in to feed, I don't have to rush in the gate so they won't rush out,,,and they sit down and wait for me to pour food. I don't really care about the camera parts, or how much money he's making, the fact that it works for me in convincing enough. I don't however believe that everyone can grasp what he's saying. Like maybe you. But for the people who understand, it really is working. To each their own.
As for actual training (sit,stay,heal etc) I use repetition,example and reward with affection . I don't use food,baby talk or treats, nor do I hit and smack or yell.
- I am very fortunate. My dog will wash the car if there is a Milk Bone in it for him!
I have always used the repetitive approach for sit, stay, settle, wait - the basic commands. I have also used this for teaching "get the ball", "Where's your baby", and things like that. Work with them about 10 minutes a day, and after a few days, they know what you want. As soon as they get one command down, add another. Then, be sure you "review" every so often. I have trained many dogs this way, except for one Jack Russell Terrier that trained me!!!!
- I follow Cesar Millan, I respect his experience and intellegence. I also realize what he accomplishes isn't done in the 15 minute TV segment. Exercise, disipline then affection, is not a horrible thing to keep in mind when dealing with an ambitious animal. Too many people say well the yard is fenced in why should I walk the dog? And they forget they are at work all day, while the poor dog is in the crate or kennel. Every dog needs exercise everyday, companionship with the owner while on that walk. Benefit both. Cesar on TV is great, people seeing this will learn more than if no trainer was on TV.
- Just because a method is older does NOT mean that it isn't effective. I watch Dog Whisperer every day and have yet to see him preform an "alpha roll" on any dog. What I have seen is an imitation of what another dog would do and that it does work. There is no "perfect" method that will work for every dog or trainer. The disclaimer is there specifically to prevent untrained misinformed people from attempting to use the method and causing more harm than good. I use an adaptation of his method with my boy and have seen improvements. I have a ton of respect for Cesar Millan because he not only promotes RESPONSIBLE ownership, he also encourages people to let their dog be dogs. IMHO, you should try actually watching instead of surfing the show. As for what method I use, I use my own. I take information that I find useful and/or helpful and mesh them into a program that works for me/my dog.
add: BTW, since I'm seeing many comments that seem to show a lack of understanding as to what an "alpha roll" actually is.... An "alpha roll" is when you forcibly put a dog onto it's back and hold it there by the chest or neck. It is used by a dominant canine as a method of LAST RESORT. Alpha rolling shouldn't be done because your dog has problems, it's useful as a guide for figuring out a puppies dominance/submission levels and for little else. Cesar uses stiffened fingers in a bite pattern to administer a firm but harmless touch. It works to get a dog to lose focus on what it's doing and refocus on you. They are two VERY different things.
- I watched him and took from him some points of training to help me out...I don't follow any one method 100% I do what works for us. I have pinned my rottie down when she was younger, just cradled her to get her to submit to me since she was being pretty darn bad in puppy hood and showing her own stubborn side...she is a very submissive dog now at age 2 maybe that helped maybe it didn't, but I would not ever recommend someone with a large dog trying this out of the blue to make them submit..large dogs are fairly strong so if they feel scared they are likely to react very negatively and someone is going to get hurt!. I have also used the tap the toe into the uptuck of the dog when walking to get her attention when calling her or giving a yank on the leash did nothing, it get's her attention, it's not being rough and she has learned to now listen to a stern no where before she was in crazy hyper mode cause of cars or the horses next door and you couldn't break that concentration without some sort of contact. So I think he has some good ways but then again he is a professional and some one who has no real idea just what they see on tv going to try something drastic with a dog will probably do more harm than good. The whole pack thing is over rated too...some dogs do feel like they are more the boss but I think the whole human/dog pack is more of a novelty people like to use to explain every bad behavior their dog shows. Sorry to ramble on so long..just my thoughts.
- I think people only fucus on the fact that he alpha rolls, and nothing else.
Yes, his methods are old, but they are sound. He does things other than rolls, and has helped many a person walk their dog. His advice about energy and your dog is great too. Just because you see him roll some dogs on tv doesn't mean that is all he does, i have seen him achieve total submission without even laying a finger on a dog.
I alpha roll my dogs, frequently, but i also know that that isn't needed for every dog, nor all the time. I have 5 dogs, one gets rolled all the time, another never has to because just giving her the look does it. He never says his physical techniques are right for every dog, and says that if you aren't absolutely sure you can do the roll, to not even try.He mostly promotes calm-assertive leadership, which is right for every dog.
- His methods may be old, but I wouldn't say they are entirely out of date. I don't agree with everything he does, but chances are you will never find any trainer that you do agree with all their methods or ideas. I usually take bits and pieces from several different trainers that I like, and therein lies my only real problem with Cesar Milan - He uses the same method on EVERY dog, regardless of what the problem is.
The thing I do like about him is he helps the general public understand pack mentality and that you shouldn't baby a dog. I think that right there is invaluable.
Also, as DP said, I have never actually seen him alpha roll a dog, I have on many occasions seen him roll a dog on their side, which has more of a calming affect rather than the whole "Alpha roll" thing. Rolling them on their side, provided you are not dealing with a dangerous dog or that you know what you are doing, allows the dog to calm down and refocus their attention on something else.
I happen to disagree with you entirely that a person cannot take over the alpha role. In a dog's mind, their people are their pack, the dominant one will naturally rise to the alpha position, whether it is a dog or a human.
There are times that I think what he is doing is totally ridiculous, but he does some great things too. Anyone that can have that many dogs under complete control is not a complete idiot and must be doing something right.
- Quote: there's only 1 thing that 2 dog trainers can agree on, and that the other one is wrong.
Every person has an idea about how to train a dog. EVERY person. There is some validity in just about every technique out there. There's validity in positive reinforcement, there's validity in negative reinforcement - it's all about what you are comfortable with as the owner. If you don't buy into a training technique, your dog will totally see through it and it will be ineffective.
Many people comment on his disclaimer stating that makes his methods unsound or bad. I have season 1 and 2 and the National Geographic channel. I watch his shows. Sure, they are edited. Sure there are some things he does that I would never do. But any good trainer - and responsible trainer would tell you not to sinply try these things at home - that if you are having behaviourial issues you should seek out a trainer to guide you in person.
Would you learn to drive simply by watching a video? No - you'd wreck your car. People that simply watch his show and then try and reproduce what he is doing are in for a wake-up call a lot of times - it just won't work as well! You don't have experience and you don't have someone standing there to help when things go wrong. So watch the show -take what you can, use it, leave what you don't like or don't agree with - but most importantly, if you are having issues with your dog that is beyond your level of expertise - find a trainer who suscribes to whatever methods you are comfortable with! :)
- I to don't think i have ever seen him alpha roll a dog..i have seen him tell others not to...on one show it was dogs in the office. some turned their dog over and cesar asked them not to. the only dog he maybe did this to was the jino. that was very aggresive.
I like cesar. there are a few things i learned.and so i don't aggree with..and like everyone said there is no way that i agree with all trainers i have read on or seen on tv. I don't like clicker training. so i don't use it. I use a choke chain on my dogs and for the more extreme i have used a prong. they are not cruel when used right. nor is a tap or a touch. If you have never worked with dogs that get so focused on one thing yelling does nothing but annoy the nieghbors.
he lets a dog be a dog which few people do and yes it is a human problem. and there is a reason why they put that warning at the bottom...he does know what he is talking about be even he gets bit some times.
however for most major problems watch the dog whispher is a horrid answer. when most people can not read a dog. or think something is aggressive when its not.
- I use positive reinforcement training method, we utilize clicker training to mark behaviors we want.
Now, that's not to say that I don't correct my dog, as I most certainly do. In obedience training, it is a gentle correction and all that I really need. In a behavior issue, it is somewhat harsh, but needs to be to get the point across. In herding training, corrections are very harsh. When you have a dog that has her eye on the sheep, sometimes it requires a harsh correction to get them to refocus on you, the handler.
It's funny, because with obedience training, harsh corrections shut my dog down, entirely. She won't work. But with herding, and really harsh corrections, it does not phase her one bit. There is a huge difference between general obedience training and training in an area a dog has a natural instinct for.
- It's one of many points of views, in my opinion, and something to be taken with a grain of salt. I think to take his word as law is drastically oversimplifying, not to mention dangerous.
