My grandma came to visit and she kept commenting how cruel dog crates are, how they never used them back then and how she can housetrain a dog well without the use of a crate. She also commented on how gentle leaders are rediculous and how they never existed back then either (we use one for when my dog goes to the shelter for play groups since metal/choke/prong collars are not allowed, otherwise we use a prong and sometimes choke chain) So i'm just curious, what has changed in the dog world? What are your opinions on the way it is now and how it was(on dogs, not the whole world)? Also, please don't think i'm trying to insult your age, i'm just curious!
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Recommended Answer:HUGE changes in my lifetime.
40 plus years ago...?
If kids and dogs were naughty, they got smacked, no one thought anything of it.
Chokers were a REQUIREMENT at dog training classes, as were hard corrections where necessary.
If your dog needed a prong for you to hold it safely - You used one.
But mostly everyone only used either a flat collar or choker. They were your 2 choices.
Treats were not used in training class. Ever.
Dogs did as they were told because they had to, not because they got a treat.
Halters were for horses.
Harnesses were for horses pulling carts or sled dogs.
Dogs frequently roamed the streets, having a great time. No one thought much of it, so long as they stayed out of trouble.
If it attacked someone, or chased livestock. It was shot. End of story.
As a result dogs were usually 'well exercised', and slept when they got home, resulting in less neurotic behavioural issues.
(I am NOT suggesting it is advisable to allow your dog out to 'roam the neighbourhood', but I AM implying that many 'problems' people have with their dogs ARE purely as a result of lack of exercise and stimulation).
If a dog had temperament problems that were deemed dangerous.
It was usually shot or put to sleep.
This is because human/childrens lives were deemed more important than the dogs.
No risk was worth it and there were no "behaviouralists" to go to.
People didn't dress their dogs in clothes.
Dogs walked on the ground (sometimes even on lead!) and were never carried in hand bags.
There was no such thing as "poo bags".
If you wanted your dog to have a treat. You gave it a raw bone. Yum!
ALL dogs ate raw meat and bones. Everyone knew that fact.
This was because they are decended from carnivores/wolves.
No one EVER suggested differently.
Even slightly stinky old raw meat at the back of the fridge was usually deamed 'ok' to feed (again, I am not saying this was necessarily a good thing).
Salmonella was what humans got, if they ate old meat.
Dogs were always fed the house hold scraps (anything the dogs wouldn't eat went to the chooks).
Cooked bones, even back in the 70s, had some suspician regarding feeding them...
But you usually fed them anyway, because they loved them.
You stopped this practice only when your (or a dog you knew) died from bowel impaction/purforation.
Dogs were NEVER fed a vegetarian diet!
WTF?
This is because, it never occurred to anyone NOT to feed a carnivorous animal meat.
Just as it never occured to anyone to feed their cows or horses a meat based diet.
Most peoples dogs lived outside, not in the house.
There have been so many changes over the years.
Some subtle, some not.
Some for the better, some not.
But one things for sure, kids and dogs were better behaved back then.
I am not saying that makes the old methods right.
I am just sayin...
EDIT:
I nearly forgot!!
There were no computers and no internet, and no Yahoo Q&A to seek advice from.
Generally, if you had a problem, you asked someone OLD who had owned lots of dogs and had a lifetime of experience, OR you asked a vet.
Also there was no such things as "Designer Dogs".
Dogs were either purebred or mutts/mongrels.
Neither was thought of as 'better' than the other.
Each dog was judged on its own merits.
No one had ever heard of a "Teacup" dog.
If you wanted a really small dog, you got a Chihuahua or the like.
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- I'm not an older dog owner, but considering that my grandfather actually drowned all of the pups his dog gave birth to (except, for some reason, 2) I'd be inclined to say that dog training and ownership as a whole has gotten a lot softer.
Which, in that case, is probably for a good thing...but for some training issues where corrections are desperately needed, it may not be as much of a good thing.
- back in the olden days :O) dog food was bought at the grocery store ... dogs ate people food ... there were no crates or special training collars ... dogs were paper trained and hit with a rolled up newspaper to discipline ... i think it is better now ... my first dog was raised like the "olden days" and my current dog was raised with crate training, obedience classes, and the best food money could buy ... both dogs were great :O)
- What has changed is peoples perception of dogs. Only 50 years ago dogs were mainly outside dogs, now that's considered abusive. Then dogs were companions with jobs to do like herd, protect, hunt, etc. Now they are members of our families sleeping in our beds with people names and people clothes.
- I have been around dogs, on a pro level, for 32 years and I do very well remember the good old days.
No, we did not have behaviorists, we did not have fancy foods, we did not have shampoos and all the other fancy crap. We DID have dogs that were A LOT harder and much more stable then what you have today. We had dogs that were a lot more handler hard that could actually work, we did not have many dogs living in the house, I never heard of that til I came to this country.
We used chokers and long lines, we did have some crude E collars that could kill a dog, we did think that if a dog could not work, it should not live.
In my opinion, we devolved as far as dogs and we have become much more soft in our ways and as a result of that, we have turned once great working dogs into oxygen thieves. Hope I helped.
- With age comes knowledge and also being open minded. When I got my first show puppy, I was forced to buy a crate. You just can't go to shows without one really. What a learning experience that was for me. I have also used a shock collar for ONE of my fence jumping dogs and am pro prong collar person, depending on the circumstance. You just have to use the TOOL that works for your dog, period. I was 10 when I was allowed to get my first dog, and my parents always *paper trained* the dog. You see, that's why NOW I am always against the use of those pee pads. Our little dog, when I was 10 years old, DID mess in the house. Gee, I wonder why. As for crates......well, there could always be the chance that your dog NEEDS to be boarded or stay at the Vet. When they are used to being confined, there's no problem. So, crates are a good thing and far from being cruel. Dogs are SAFE when in their crate and can't chew the house apart when you're not home. Just to let you know, I'll be 56 in October and don't find age as an insult.
- I am old, and I never owned a crate until a couple of years ago.
I confined my dogs to one room when I was housebreaking, and it basically served the same function.
I think the crate makes it a little easier, but I am still not comfortable leaving a dog crated all day.
Likewise, I had never heard of a prong collar until I came here. I just used a flat collar or chain collar.
I can say that until recently people were not terrified of disciplining their dogs. That is new, and not a good new; IMO.
Dogs are more humanized now, and people seem to be afraid of hurting their feelings, which makes for some VERY ill-mannered and misunderstood dogs.
(My parents would never have drowned a puppy. My mother spent a fortune in vet bills saving a cat that had been hit by a car back in the 60s, and we hand-raised kittens that lost their mom at a young age.)
My dog slept in my bed with me, and ate Gravy Train and Gaines Burgers (both of which are total crap.)
- I'm no where near an older dog owner but I have never used crates, shockers, chokers, professional trainers, etc and I have always had the most well behaved dogs I know. Dogs lives were harder years ago but I do believe all the crap people are coming out with is ridiculous. Like even though your dog is house trained crate it while your gone, never put your hand on a dog (I'm not saying punch it but now if you just push a dog away from something people want to gasp and call you an animal abuser) Some things have changed for the better, some for the worse.
- Well this old fart still believes that most of the new fangled gadgets are a waste of money. I have used a chain collar and a regular 6 ft lead and commands on my dog since I was a very young fart. As I got a little older (and got a Irish Setter, beautiful but stubborn as hell) I saw that there were these wonderful things called prongs and e-collars which make it so much easier and kept me from pulling out most of my hair (and kept me from killing the Irish Setter)
I have never used a crate except for transporting a dog, I have never brushed a dogs teeth, never had any need for it, I gave them good food and lots of raw bones and have never had a dog with bad teeth or gums.
The one thing that I have learned in my older years is nutrition. But maybe that is a bunch of hype too. My first Border Collie lived on Kennel Ration every day for 17 years before it killed her.
Today too many people want to use the easy way not the best way.
add-LOL I guess I am the only old fart in here tonight.
- I am 23 but i had never heard of crates or gentle leaders until i came on here and i started reading about how you cannot housebreak a dog without a crate etc, which i know is pure BS because my dogs were trained fine without one. They just were kept in the back-hall/kitchen until they were trained.
In terms of the food, my dog has always eaten table scraps and gone periods of time where he ate nothing but table scraps and has done fine. Today i saw dog food marketed towards individual breeds.... now if anyone doesn't see through that for the huge scam that it is, they shouldn't own a dog.
My grandparents always had dogs and my grandfather raced greyhounds, his dogs were fed table scraps but also drank blood that was sent for from the abattoir nearby.... i have no idea what the blood was for and don't really want to know either. However as he was older 70s/80s and before he died they had a kerry blue terrier and he used to buy the dog a steak once a week and cook it and give it all to the dog... So i guess older dog owners can change with time.
I really haven't noticed a huge change here from how i am told it used to be from older family members but i am relying on their memory for that and i don't think the lack of change is down to an age thing, but more of a cultural thing.
The majority of dogs aren't fixed, they eat supermarket food and table scraps, they are kept outside and if they are trained they are trained with a choker as prongs aren't that well known here. Most dogs however aren't trained in terms of any real OB but as long as they come when they are called, that seems to be good enough.
There are a few changes though, with the ''designer dog breeds'' and stuff like that, my neighbour has a 'mini yorkie', a huge push towards getting dogs from the pound or the re-homing centre here etc. There has also been a HUGE increase in the number of purebred dogs in the last 5 or so years. Before then the only purebred dogs really were labs, border collies, jack russells and the odd doberman or rotty. Now there are dalmatians, bulldogs, shar peis, schnauzers etc all running around.
- Well, I am only 21 years old, but I still remember how dogs were raised because I grew up with dogs. We never had a crate for our dogs or special food. Bear (now deceased) ate powdered eggs, cooked and scraps. I never seen that dog eat dog food and he was very healthy with the most beautiful curly fur. He was our guard dog and companion. He wouldn't let anyone in the house without my mother's permission. lol! The police even wanted him because of his temperament. Gentle when you know him, fierce when you didn't. Bear had the run of the house and we could do anything to him. He never bit, EVER!! That's back when dogs were very stable and had real jobs to do, instead of being bred for pet quality and prance around rings. I remember when dobermans were a feared breed and to see a real-live police shepherd doing it's job. At that time, people owned dogs for what they NEEDED them for, not what they looked like. I still pick my breeds of dogs based just on that. My two current dogs have jobs. Teensy is pest control (summer,winter,spring,fall) all-year round, even though she is a house dog. She still has a job to do when she hits the backyard, inside the house, front yard. She loves it and her temperament is perfect. Taylor's job is to help Teensy with pest control and warn me when someone is coming up the driveway. Every dog in this neighbourhood has a job (not many are outside) and they all bark when thugs are walking down the road being loud in the middle of the night. Those thugs haven't been back since. We don't live in a bad neighbourhood, but it's always some ghetto idiots somewhere in a quiet neighbourhood. The tools used to train dogs have changed. When growing up, mom used a flat buckle or choker chain and 6ft leash. Dogs should be raised as dogs, even if they live inside houses now. My dogs are still raised as dogs......I spoil them sometimes, but I still see them as dogs. They eat better kibble (merrick), which doesn't cost too much. Other than that, everything else is still the same. I have a crate and they kennel-up when I say so, I just do it to mess with them. I still have no use for that crate, except for Taylor to lounge in outside. I use a choker on Taylor and I know how to use it effectively. Neighbours look at me like "WTF?!?" when I walk my 83lbs dog with my 10lbs dog and me only weighing 110lbs. lol!! They probably think I'm a kid because I am short, skinny and look young in the face and body. lol!!! Oh, well. They can keep guessing my age. hahaha. Teensy walks decent in a harness or cat collar (it has a bell on it). I can put anything around my dogs neck and walk them with no problem.
- First, please stop using the Prong collar - they hurt the dog and can cause serious neck injuries if not used properly. Now to your question. There was only the Choke Chain for training. Basic obedience was all the training the dogs got. We house-trained pups without crates, as you stated. There weren't any animal behaviourists, or holistic medicines. We took care of our dog's injuries and illnesses ourselves, instead of running to the Vet for every little thing. 'Gentle Leaders' were only used on horses. There were only about 2 - 3 brands of dog food. (Dr. Ballard's and Ralston Purina). Not all dogs lived long lives, as they were free to roam the streets - not having to be tied up. This also caused many dog fights.
