I do lots of dog training. I have been told that I am a miracle worker. I do positive reinforcement training and in certain cases use a variety of different collar substitutes such as pinch (or prong) collars, shock (actually vibration) collars and head collars (Halti, easy leader, etc). I am just amazed at the looks I get when people ask me what "that thing" around the dogs neck is. When I walk my doberman she stays immediatly to my right with her head at my hip and the lead is always loose. She walks like an angel. But it wasn't always that way. I utilized these training tools and they worked. I don't understand why people think these things are cruel.
The pinch collar pinches ONLY when the dog pulls and is loose when they do not. Having a dog constantly pulling on a regular collar WILL (not sometimes can) cause MORE damage to your dogs throat than the occasional pinch from a prong collar. It is a SAFER alternative.
The "Shock" collars (bark and remote) are actually vibration collars and I have tested every level ON MYSELF. I promise you it feels more like an itch than a shock. Please realize a dogs neck is not anatomically comparable to our neck. It is very different! Besides that, most of these units include a "beep" feature. After training her on this collar she only needs the beep to understand she needs to listen to me. Example: My pup LOVES children, but sometimes they are terrified of her. If she gets excited and begins to pull towards a terrified child I can beep her to calm her down without alarming the nervous child more by bellowing a loud command.
As far as bark collars go, they are the best way to give an immediate response to the issue so your dog does not confuse your "NO's" for a different behavior. And once again, it is a vibration, not a shock.
And finally head collars. When trained properly these are not cruel and unusual punishment for a dog. They are safe, especially if your dog has a possibility for aggression (some allow you to pull upwards turning the collar into a temporary muzzle), and they do not constrict breathing or force your dogs mouth shut. Your dog can eat, drink, breath, pant, and everything else with the head collar on.
Positive reinforcement has its place and should always be used. But aggression and dangerous behaviors need to be addressed in a different way. What do you think the "professionals" do when your positive reinforcement is only going so far? These tools are not for everyone, but if you know how to use them they can cause great success with you and your pet!
Also, I know not all shock collars are vibration collars, but if you know anything about dog training you should know the most widely marketed collars are, in fact, vibration collars.
Dog Training For Dog Problems
Recommended Answer:If a dog can be trained using only a cookie and positive reinforcement, great!
Some behaviors (and some dogs!) need stronger measures. I'm not AT ALL against using 'whatever it takes' to get the desired behavior.
Different dogs do respond to different methods. For example, the Gentle Leader DID curb my Setter's pulling on the leash, but didn't actually cure the problem. His back end danced out sideways. A PRONG collar (high and tight) sure as heck DID cure the problem!
Anything that delivers an immediate correction gets the point across to the dog. Dogs don't really understand 'bad boy' or 'no', but they DO 'get it' when an action causes a swift, negative consequence.
Positive Dog Training Methods
- I see those training tools become a crutch or replace the needed time to work with the dog.
- TL;DR
People hate those collars because they think they cause physical pain to animals. That's really all.
- The only way I can walk my crazy black lab is with a claw collar. It works and doesn't hurt her.
- Simple...Lack of knowledge.
- My dog doesn't use a collar of any type. We walk our Black Lab with a body harness.
- I think the problem is that they are used by people who don't know how to use them right, and then they can be cruel.
We have both a choke chain collar and a remote e-collar. We were taught how to use both from a actual experienced trainer. I know that with the choke chain, you don't continuously choke them, but just give a really quick tug as a correction. And that the remote collar is used as a quick noise (or vibration) correction. Other people might not know how to do it and end up torturing their dogs. These things really ought to come with thorough instructions.
We rarely use either of these collars--just when my dog needs a little "tough love" training. He's a very stubborn dog, and needs to know he doesn't always get his way.
So, yes, I think they're fine to use, but only if you know it's absolutely necessary for a particular dog, and you know how to do it properly.
- It's ignorance. Those people obviously don't know how those tools work or how to use those tools correctly, so they foolishly assume they are 'cruel'. Even some ignorant Dog Trainers foolishly think a choke chain (slip leash) is cruel.
- Personally, I have no problem with training collars. If people want to think I'm mean, let them think it.
Am I being mean to my big dog for making wear him a shock collar to keep him inside his underground fence? No. Because of the shock collar, he get's to roam over 2 acres. With a chain, he wouldn't be able to go more than 20 feet without getting wrapped around a tree.
Am I being mean for making my jack russel wear a vibrating bark collar? Maybe a little. But before the collar, he would bark and try to bite anyone leaving the house. Since he started wearing the collar, he's been an angel. So even if people think it's mean, I would rather them think that than have them get bit.
With proper training, any dog can be a good dog. But too many people are worried about "being mean" so they let their dogs get away with anything.
- People hate those collars because we don't see professionals using them as tools - all we see is pet owners using them wrong and hurting the animals - therefore, they are bad. Keep them out of the hands of those who aren't smart enough to use them as they should be, and I think that would change.
- I do not have a problem with the collars that have a beep alternative or that spray something in the dogs face. I do have a problem with the actual shock collars that leave the dog with no warning and ARE painful. A long time ago my uncle had a dog that barked nonstop so he got it a collar that shocked him every time he barked. The dog simply learned to only bark when the collar wasn't on... also, I was shocked by that collar... it SERIOUSLY hurt.
I also don't have a problem with the "choke collars" so long as they're used properly. I just hate seeing people leave them on their dog all the time and use them to simply force their dog to listen to them... providing no actual training. I always see people casually walking their dog wearing one of these collars and I hate it. But then again, I'm not a big fan of collars period... I'm more of a "step-in" harness person. I hate seeing things pull on dogs' necks.
As for head collars, I think they're a very good invention for aggressive dogs. Obviously I do not agree with them being worn all the time but if I had a dog with a history of aggression it would definitely be used as a training tool and used in public, for safety.
- I have no problem with any sort of prong, pinch, slip, or shock (and I'm talking real shock, not vibration collars) as long as they are used a safely and appropriately.
For example, training a hunting dog half a mile away, you need a way to get his attention! A yell or whistle is not going to do it.
I don't care for halti's and the like, as I feel you are not really training with those, but restraining. None the less, for some they have a place.
A trainer who trains only one way with one method is not a trainer.
- Negative stigma, that comes from the stories of people who went out and bought a training tool without bothering to learn how it's used first, and from the vilifying by some trainers. I've read more than a few books where it was painfully obvious that the authors' had either never researched, or just really didn't understand, the methods they were decrying.
I have yet to come across any published anti-(insert method/tool here) book that could support their view without arguing common misconceptions.
Trickle that down to the average pet owner. There are far too many out there who are quick to jump on the bandwagon without doing any research. Some will settle into the first training approach they're introduced to, and they won't take the time to understand anything else. They'll just decry everything that they were told was "wrong".
Others will get frustrated, but instead of taking the time to do research/talk to a trainer, they'll look for a quick fix, and go grab the first training collar they see. Maybe they saw someone else using one, or maybe they just walked into the store and asked an employee what they would use. Then they'll go home, put the new collar on their dog, and expect a miracle. Maybe it was an electronic collar they bought. When the dog doesn't respond the first time they use it, out of frustration, the uneducated owner jumps right to full force. During the resulting fallout, whatever that may be, they turn it against the collar, rather than admit they were wrong in how they used it. Then it goes on to perpetuate the stream of reasons "not" to use something.
At the end of the day, it's the fool, not the tool.
- I think it is for any number of reasons. Some of them have seen them misused and being uninformed a about the appropriate use of the tool think that is how they are suppose to be used. Some just jump to the concluding they are cruel because they "look mean" or it "sounds like it would be cruel" so there fore it must be cruel/mean. Others just jump on the band wagon. Someone told them it was cruel, they read it was cruel etc and so it must be cruel. Still others are of the option everything other that positive only training is cruel. All in all it is basically a lack of educating themselves on the tools
- i think they can be used right but there are just too many idiots out there. my dog wears a chain choke collar. weve had so many problems with her breaking collars and getting out of them. i think she perfers the looseness when shes not being walked. last time i tried a regular collar on her she sat in front of me glaring at me until i put her choker back on. i think if people know what theyre doing they can use whatever training technique works best for their dog. my vet reccomended a shock collar when i was having problems getting her to go outside. i strongly considered it because when i tried to take her out she was showing aggression. because of price i decided to just try to work with her my own way and it worked.
