We are desperately trying to apply positive training methods to our 6-month old Rough Collie, and am coming up frustrated so I need some positive outcomes coming from difficult dogs, and also how long it took to train. We have been through puppy training, leash walking, recall, etc. and she knows basic commands. I really want this dog to be a companion that I can take with me anywhere, but she has absolutely no impulse control and it's driving me crazy. She reacts to everything from other animals to bikes, trash trucks, etc. Sometimes I can get her to "look at me" and sometimes not, depending on how interesting the distraction is. So we are no strangers to training and have been working on it literally every day since she was 12 weeks old (when we got her.) We've taken her to outdoor cafes and so long as we shovel food or treats her way, she'll kind of behave. We've brought bully sticks and peanut butter filled kongs, balls, toys, etc. as distractions but like I said, that's just basically a few minute distraction and her attention span is very short even for things she loves. I'd love to hear other people's success stories as to how they trained their dog to be a well behaved sidewalk cafe dog. Also, how long it took to get to that point from being badly behaved. She is super sweet and not at all aggressive, just excitable and I'm guessing, or perhaps hoping that her age is a factor here. I feel like everyone I see who has a well behaved dog that they were just born that way and we're the odd ball, so I need some reassurance here.
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Recommended Answer:I am a professional dog trainer who uses reward based training. My Aussie, Moose, came to me at a year old, having been through 3 other owners. My Godmother was his last owner, and he drove her crazy and she is the most patient person ever. I got a call one night that she could not deal with him anymore, and would have to re-home him. She was taking him on 5 mile runs every morning and evening, and he was still bouncing off the walls. He barked, ate a metal water spigot, ate 13 pair of shoes in one day, and ruined half the stuff in her house. I needed a demo dog for my training classes, so I took him,
He was definitely a handful. The only real "casualty" in my house was the huge beanbag chair he decided to rip open and spread tiny foam pellets throughout the house. (Which consequently ruined my expensive vacuum.) He also had issues with aggression towards men,large women, and elderly people. I don't think I took my eyes off this dog for a minute for the first year that I had him, besides for when he was in his kennel. Everyone said I was crazy for even taking him, and there were times I thought so too.
Moose is 3 now. Everyone wants my dog. People ask me all the time how I ended up with a dog like this, and why theirs couldn't have his demeanor. It always makes me laugh. Moose and I had our share of ups and downs for sure. I found Moose's key to training was trick training. I don't care if he knows how to play dead or take a bow. But he loved it. We started doing multi-step tricks as he got better at the easier ones. He began to honestly love training, and not just for the treats. He enjoyed the brain stimulation. He is great at obedience too, but when I was initially training him I used fun tricks in between the obedience cues to keep him focused (he has ADD too, lol). Now, he can make my bed, find my missing car keys, and put away his toys when I ask him to, in addition to being well-behaved.
I've found a few things to be true since I've started training professionally. 1 - You can't train maturity, and you can't train genetics. But maturity comes with time (I joke that Moose knows when his birthday is, because he gets more mature around his b-day every year.) 2 - No dog is perfect. Some dogs are born naturally wanting to stick by your side, but they may have behavioral problems or training issues that you might not see during your local trip to the park. It used to frustrate me to see other well behaved dogs, while my dog was going nuts. If the owners knew I was a dog trainer, I would get really embarrassed. I would be ashamed of my dog and get insecure about my skills as a trainer ("...I can train everyone's dog's but mine! Why!?"). After talking to some of these owners, I would hear stories like "...yeah, Brucie is great on walks. He stays right with me, even off leash, and never barks or anything. Oh hey, aren't you a dog trainer? I've seen you! What can I do about Brucie humping my couch cushions and peeing on my rugs?" (True story!) 3 - If you expect too much too fast, it will have disastrous results. I could always count on Moose to make a fool out of me exactly when I needed him to behave. Like in the middle of a seminar or when at a dog park. After each time, I realize I put him in over his head. Even if you think you've practiced with distractions a million times and he should get it, the bottom line is that he hasn't gotten the idea yet. Every time, I would regroup, double my efforts, and have another go at it. I look at everything as a training opportunity, and that's what I told my classes if moose would act up... "this is a great example of a perfect training opportunity..." and work through the problem. Now in my classes he helps the scared dogs come out of their shells, and I can count on him to behave right when I need him to the most, and we are so in sync it's as if he reads my mind. I think it, he does it. It's a great feeling, and I'm glad I stuck out his adolescence. I have been offered money for Moose multiple times, even $5000 once! I wouldn't trade him for the world.
Good luck with your dog, keep up the training. Try a group class at a pet store, if your dog can learn to behave in a pet store with other people and dogs around, and toys and bones as temptations, you'll have a better chance of that training sticking with him in other environments. Also try outings that are specifically for practicing with him, if you're already doing that, great. Or, try something new with him. Maybe agility or flyball? Moose does well at both, most herding breeds do. If nothing else, it will give you a good network with others who are going through the same problems you are. Happy training!
5 Basic Dog Training Mistakes
- this is a co.mmon problem i see from dogs who r only positive trained they have no self control, i would suggest seeking out a more traditional trainer my dogs have all been trained with both positives and adversives and they are wonderfully calm and well behaved
- training is a lot of hard work and repetition not just going to classes.
- She's a 6 month old puppy, and what you are experiencing is normal for a puppy that age. I think you're expecting too much, too fast, given her age. My Miniature Pinscher could not be consistently calm and settled in public until he was about a year old. Keep at it, and you'll get there with the right techniques. However, I"m not sure that you're using positive methods correctly in this instance, it sounds more like you're trying to bribe her into behaving rather than rewarding good behavior. You shouldn't be shoveling food and treats at her. Treats should be out of sight and out of mind until you reward. And you don't reward until the dog's displaying behavior you like. What my trainer recommends is what she calls "capturing calm". Basically you wait patiently for the dog to settle, then quietly reward the behavior. It's more effective if you use a clicker. The dog comes to learn that it gets praise and rewards for being calm, and nothing for acting excited. It's best to do this in a quieter place FIRST until the dog's good at settling quietly and quickly, and gradually increase distractions and activity. So start at your home, then a quiet public are with few people, etc. You can't expect them to just "get it" when they're young and in an area with tons of distractions, plus with lots of strangers around, people invariably are going to want to pet a dog that's friendly and excited, which REWARDS her behavior and sets you back in the training process. You can also use a "go to mat and settle" by assigning her a rug that's her "quiet place" and bringing it with you to the cafe. You would basically teach a "go to" command for the rug, and then apply the steps I outlined for capturing calm once on the mat. If she leaves the mat without permission, she should be replaced. Reward her lying calmly on her rug. Do this first in your home and often. Once she's good at it, you can gradually increase distraction and change location.
- do you think your expectations might be a titch high for a 6 month old puppy ??? my dog will sit quietly beside me at a cafe but she is an adult ... she was very well trained with classes and such from the moment i got her at 8 weeks, and she never could have sat nicely at a sidewalk cafe at 6 months of age ... maybe acknowledge sitting quietly at sidewalk cafes is not where your puppy is at yet ... and that is because she is a puppy, not for lack of training ...
- Sounds like you've been rewarding her excitable reactions.
Are you waiting for a calm response before you c/t? Or are you just shoving food in her face as soon as she reacts?
Puppy push ups. Sit down up, sit down up. Have her do those while you're at the cafe. Do not wait for her to react, don't even give her the option.
Some dogs show improvement immediately, other dogs it takes a couple weeks.
- Don't ask the people here; they're idiots. Try the people on Dogster.
Though I don't know much else, you CAN do it! She's just a puppy still, so she will have a short attention span. Continue training, and if you need to, arrange to have an hour (or two half hours, given your dog's attention span) of one-on-one problem solving with the instructor of your class. You need the help, and it sounds like that would be the ticket, as opposed to nuggets of information that may or may not help and may even contradict each other.
- your dog is very young and is a high energy breed. You don't mention whether or not you provide her with any exercise before you ask her to be calm and well behaved. collies are working breeds and require a lot of mental stimulation and work to do. I'd recommend taking her for a good walk, or a run before you try working with her. You can purchase doggie backpacks which make the walk more tiring if you don't have the time or energy for a longer walk or a run.
I used positive training to stop a GSD from chasing bikes and joggers I used food as a reinforcement, the trick being that I got her attention with the treat before she noticed the approaching person, then kept her focused by only allowing her to sniff the treat, until the person had passed. then she was rewarded. I started by putting her in a sit first, then as she got good at ignoring while we did that, we progressed to heeling with the treat in hand, while the person passed, pretty soon, we were walking off leash, and she would ignore the approaching bike/jogger.
Keep training sessions short. and end them on a positive note. Even if you just stop and sit at an outdoor cafe, or other public place, for only 5 minutes or so, giving her treats and keeping her attention on you, and then going home, it's going to help her realize what she did was right, instead of waiting until she gets bored and looks for mischief.
When you make it a regular occurrence then some of the excitement will die off. I used to take my dogs to the dog park daily for about an hour or more. i'd watch people chase their dogs around for a half hour to try to get them to go home. because it was part of our routine, and not an infrequent event, my dogs would leave without any problems.
good luck!
- , The only way to get results is to put in the time. The key is only train for 5-10 minutes at a time any longer and its boring. 3 session of 5 minutes will get more done than one 15 minute lesson. And it is easier to make that commitment of time... You put on the coffee, train a few minutes, you make lunch, a few minutes more, you start dinner another quick session, you brush your teeth... Also, don't expect more from a dog than is age appropriate. How many of the dogs at the cafe are puppies? Expect obedience but increase the length of time she can hold a command and the number of reasonable distractions gradually.
I don't know where you took classes, but maybe they did not tell you how to train your dog to behave in public. You work on commands at first where there are no distractions at all. THEN the next step is to say crank up a stereo or something distracting inside the house. NEXT try it in the backyard. THEN the front yard. THEN on a walk. You can work on commands in each of these areas from the beginning, but do not expect good results until each challenge is met. If your dog has trouble being distracted then you take one step back in the process, practice until they are doing well. Then move on again.
You go through all these steps before you even think your dog can ignore all the activity around a cafe. The actual command that you want to work on in order to have your dog behave in this setting is the STAY command.
The key element in teaching stay is to increase the length of time your dog can maintain the stay, before you ever move even a few inches away. Once they stay with you right in front of / beside them. Then you move a few inches away, and start the process over again. If you move too far away and your dog breaks, then you move closer and begin again. Once your dog begins holding a stay for at least a minute with you at least a foot away then you begin to teach "GO IN." You have the dog go under the kitchen table to start, and have her "DOWN, STAY." Because at first she will be familiar with these commands. As she is lying down you quietly say "GOOD GO IN, GOOD GO IN" if you speak too loud or with too much excitement you will be the one causing her to break.
As she learns the "GO IN" at the kitchen table, and as her time and distance improves then take her outside to a table in the back yard... Get a card table from a second hand store if necessary. Any table big enough will do fine. After she gets to a point she can stay under the table in the back yard, try having her "GO IN" under a park bench... But don't expect her to hold this for long even just a moment to begin, as you are training the stay and go in commands be sure you say the word "RELEASE" before she gets a chance to move. If you see her flinch, go ahead and release her. This way it was you that ended her work, not her decision to move out of place. This is true for sit stay when you work on that as well.
Learning the basic elements of the most common commands takes only a few weeks. Polishing a dogs behavior can take months or even years if not done regularly or properly! If someone has a dog that behaves "perfectly," either they put in the work and time or they are more blessed than I certainly ever have been!!
I didn't mean for this to be so long, but I don't want you to give up. And a quick answer would not be much help.
p.s. in response to some of your extra info... Different problems require different solutions / corrections. There are specific solutions to these problems but I am out of room. I wish you had worked with a different trainer, try to find one that has continuing classes. Puppy class is only the beginning, it lays the foundation for more advanced training and expectations!!
